Pon: Help: Classical on Sputnik

Pon 06.16.16	Appreciate any kind of feedback
Spec 06.16.16	needs more rossini
hal1ax 06.16.16	Oh sweet. Everything you said makes sense, and seems like a good way to go. Only thing I don't like about sorting releases under the ensemble / performer name is that it just makes it harder to browse for vague things. Like, if someone wants to scout out Tchaikovsky piano works, they're going to look under the Tchaikovsky page and not the Arthur Rubinstein page.
Pon 06.16.16	True that. That's why I think they could go under both. I'd personally choose to rate Rubinstein's interp, but the alternative is there if anyone else wants it. I also thought of a stickied sound-off idea, so someone could ask a mod to include a link to a specific interpretation on the album page for the composition itself. But this would probably require some tinkering from MX and I'm not holding my breath for that one.
Idleness 06.16.16	classical music should be banned
hal1ax 06.16.16	"That's why I think they could go under both. " for sure. I've added a lot of classical to the DB but i think some of it may not be as organized as this method. i will go back and edit some stuff over the next few days. I definitely feel like the classical side of the DB can use a reform.
hal1ax 06.16.16	this is the most recent monstrosity I've added -- RIAS / Akademie f�r Alte Musik Berlin / Ren� Jacob. look at these god damn diamond question marks
hal1ax 06.16.16	sputnik can't even umlaut
Pon 06.16.16	Yes I noticed that and assumed either you or valkyrion were to blame, but seeing as you came clean I will spare you from the pits of hell
hal1ax 06.16.16	haha i am retarded. sryyyy
Pon 06.16.16	s'all good my man, but yeah RIAS / Akademie has a proper page now so just add everything by them to that
hal1ax 06.16.16	sweet
Keyblade 06.16.16	i agree with all of this, especially 1...think that should be easy to implement too. for 3 instead of ellipses, maybe an "et al" would be better, that way ppl know there are more performers it would be cool if there were a way to link interpretations to the original "album" page and then from the album page u can then access all of the interps on the database
Pon 06.16.16	I'll hit up one of the mods and see if they can get mx to implement some kind of feature along those lines, it would be really really useful. As far as "et al" instead of ellipses? Well, they both mean the same thing and ellipses are probably more broadly understood than "et al". They also take up fewer characters which is helpful, and having a uniform way of adding releases along these lines will mean fewer dupe pages.
tommygun 06.16.16	who needs classical when you have SYLOSIS
Asdfp277 06.16.16	if i might comment with my very limited classical experience, don't people navigate more through conductors than orchestras, but that's what i've seen while listening to all whole 2 albums of classical performances ://
SitruK6 06.16.16	It would be awesome to see a change in the classical database
BandNewbac 06.16.16	agreed
ScuroFantasma 06.16.16	Yeah this is an interesting problem. It's probably different for modern classical, but I find it easier to just rate Beethoven, for example, on the Beethoven page rather than trying to find the correct version. At the same time I understand how different performances of the same music vary.
Pon 06.16.16	"don't people navigate more through conductors than orchestras" Really just depends on the profile of the conductor. This might be the case for Karajan or Bernstein, but someone like, say... Jansons or Solti, probably not. Most notable conductors become synonymous with certain orchestras anyway.
Asdfp277 06.16.16	ohh i see i believe this will work out as long as we all follow through tbh, this is really good, really appreciated jac >:]
Relinquished 06.16.16	"I'll hit up one of the mods and see if they can get mx to implement some kind of feature along those lines" hit them up to see if mx is even ALIVE
Asdfp277 06.16.16	rip mx
Pon 06.16.16	I don't think mx is alive or dead at this point, he's one with the server, which is why it's always breaking
CaliggyJack 06.16.16	Needs moar Charles Dutoit
Zig 06.16.16	Totally agree. I prefer rating each piece rather then a compilation album, although a compilation of a composer work make sense, it not represent his/her catalog most of the times. About 4, I usually give credit to the 'star' in the end of the tracklist, for example, Chopin Noctunes by Maria João Pires.
Insurrection 06.16.16	great ideas, ive been hoping classical music gets an overhaul on this site but given the site's infrastructure i can't imagine it would be easy getting mx on board. here's to hoping
Valkyrion 06.16.16	maybe we could use the composer page similarly to rym, just add all the releases under "compilation". it would certainly make it easier to navigate but would also create problems with the number of characters since you'd have to add the performer as well in the release title
Pon 06.16.16	Hmmm, I've tried that a couple times and it creates more problems than it solves, and you're right, it's a tight fit when it comes to titles. Not to mention, it's inaccurate, which defeats the purpose of what we're trying to do. I think releases like the Tabula Rasa above could go under 'compilation' on the composer's page, because that particular album is a collection of 4 separate recordings with 4 separate groups. Just a thought.
DrMaximus 06.16.16	Feature this, Jac
iloveyouall 06.16.16	composer: keith cozart
Ocean of Noise 06.16.16	Honestly, I think we should catalogue classical music the same way we catalogue anything else. The whole "compositions as albums" thing is pretty pointless (seeing as listeners don't BUY compositions, they buy RECORDINGS) and I think we should just get rid of it altogether. The artist(s) should be the person(s) who made the recording. Studio recordings should go under LPs, live recordings should go under Live Albums, etc. Composers shouldn't be listed as artists in the first place, and we should have a separate database for composers if need be. The whole point of a site like this is to recommend, or not recommend, recordings to listeners. Our current system completely fails to do that, and so it's all basically useless information. I mean, sure, Beethoven's 9th Symphony may be a 4.7, but which recording are we talking about?? Am I making any sense?
iloveyouall 06.16.16	why not file it under the conductor/performer, and put the composer's name in the album title (e.g. Beethoven: the pulchritudinous Symphonie)? I will admit it makes searching harder, but if sput could (probably in 2096 knowing the rate at which this site gets updated) implement a release search function, that issue would be largely inconsequential. makes cataloguing a lot easier at least...
Ocean of Noise 06.16.16	Agreed, sach. That's what music databases generally do, as far as I know.
DrMaximus 06.17.16	Yeah, that's what I thought as well
p4p 06.17.16	can we just add the same album example like 4 mahler's symphony no 5 but each with a different year it was recorded?
p4p 06.17.16	like for now atleast
Asdfp277 06.17.16
Pon 06.22.16	Guidelines have been finalised and you can find em here http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641749
Asdfp277 06.22.16	[[ • If three or more ensembles perform on the same release, treat it as a compilation and add it under the composer’s band page, eg. “Krzysztof Penderecki – Matrix 5”. ]] Addenum: if there's also three composers or more thorough the album, put it under "Various Artists" or "Soundtrack (Media)" (?what u think??). Gotta specify that, at some point somebody's gotta encounter that as we already have those on the db :0 !!
Pon 06.22.16	Hmmmm, there are a lot of releases which feature multiple composers but only one or two ensembles performing the material itself, so it could go just go under the names of the ensembles performing it. Of course there were always going to be albums which were next to impossible to catalog accurately, hence why the thread's there if you need to ask : )
Asdfp277 06.22.16	i see >:] thnaks
Asdfp277 06.22.16	One ensemble, two composers, name of the composers in brackets separated by "/" right? The more specific u make it, the less unanswered questions there'll be :0
Pon 06.22.16	Yup that's all good. You can choose to omit the composers' names if they're not included in the album title though. Thankfully, those sort of albums make up such a small proportion of classical releases so I'm okay to cross those bridges when we come to them. I didn't want to be way too specific because that would raise more questions than answer.
Asdfp277 06.22.16	it's quite a hard job yea, having to make "yes"/"no" algorithms people can conclusively come to the answer to, without leaving dead ends
Pon 06.22.16	This is more for the usual "Okay, so I've got this recording of The Rite of Spring, performed by the New York Philharmonic and conducted by Bernstein, how should I add it" sort of thing. Inevitably there will be some bullshit 7 hour comp with 8 different composers and a billion individual musicians but if we'd tried to account for that sort of thing the guidelines would've been near incomprehensible. Either way this is better than the system we had going before.
Asdfp277 06.22.16	lmao
Pon 06.22.16	( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Havey 08.25.19	been catching up on my sput rates, might as well switch to this system adding my collection and we'll see how far i get before the 50 character limit makes me rage quit
Uzumaki 08.25.19	I like this idea. Nice job, Jaq.
Havey 08.29.19	seems the actual character limit for albums is 75, but for some reason the text field on the submit album page is set to 50 (and 40 on the edit album page...) so to make titles longer than 50 chars just inspect the text field then edit the maxlength attribute. anything higher than 75 will still be truncated, but still way better than the 50/40 limit
robertsona 11.15.23	This is sadder than Ernest Hemingway’s six word short story
JohnnyoftheWell 11.15.23	RIP Pon
GhandhiLion 11.15.23	Ah this one. Ty