Synesthete: Metalcore Help!

Synesthete 12.19.10	btw, "it's christian" is not a valid musical criticism
climactic 12.19.10	yes it is
climactic 12.19.10	ok nah the songs in 1 and 2 just do very little to differentiate themselves from each other so i find them tedious to listen to
Synesthete 12.19.10	i don't get why people say that. 8 has a few very well-structured songs, the vocal harmonies are good although they rely on auto-tune.
eternium 12.19.10	I don't have to justify shit. These are just classic and necessary metalcore albums. Integrity - Those Who Fear Tomorrow (often credited as the first metalcore album) Cave In - Until Your Heart Stops Converge - When Forever Comes Crashing Deadguy - Fixation on a Coworker The Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity Botch - American Nervoso Snapcase - Progression Through Unlearning Misery Signals - Of Malice and the Magnum Heart
Synesthete 12.19.10	agreed on Misery Signals and Dillinger. and sure you don't have to justify anything. i'd appreciate it though, because i honestly don't understand why i enjoy core albums that others hate
Kimm 12.19.10	Amount of Kimmsight in this list is satisfactory. There is nothing wrong with this list. You may also like War of Ages (Start with the song Eternal) because they sound very much like As I Lay Dying. Misery Signals rules, although I can't give you a reason why. Portraits is my favorite For Today album, but if you haven't yet listened to Breaker I would highly recommend it.
Kimm 12.19.10	"i honestly don't understand why i enjoy core albums that others hate" This.
dr2den 12.19.10	metalcore help; dont listen to it
wyankeif1337 12.19.10	The Dillinger Escape Plan - Option Paralysis The Word Alive - Deceiver Converge - Jane Doe Amia Venera Landscape - The Long Procession Underoath - Disambiguation The Ghost Inside - Returners Trenches - The Tide Will Swallow Us Whole (more post-metal or sludge w/ metalcore influence) Reasons: because they're all awesome.
Synesthete 12.19.10	Kim, i like War of Ages, and I've heard Breaker. I thought it was alright. Phoenix is a great song though
coneren 12.19.10	coalesce you cunt hammer holer
Satellite 12.19.10	you don't have to justify what you like. you probably either listen to this stuff because you find it genuinely appealing or because you're just following some passing trend.
Kimm 12.19.10	Devastator is my favorite off the album.
Synesthete 12.19.10	genuinely appealing. i'm not much for trends
InFiction 12.19.10	Anything by Architects. Why? They're one of the less generic and more unique sounding metalcore bands and their song structure as well as vocals, lyrics and instrumentation is tight.
Kimm 12.19.10	"genuinely appealing. i'm not much for trends" This guy is a male version of me!
Kimm 12.19.10	Architects [2]
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	What's wrong with the Metalcore that's listed is that all of those bands bring nothing new to music. They just feed off of other people's sounds within the genre creating a very boring and underwhelming listening experience.
Winsomniac 12.19.10	Counterparts. /thread
Kimm 12.19.10	Who cares if they bring something new? If Rey have a sound that appeals to a lot of listeners, then what they're doing is A-okay. Everyone views music differently and the way I see it, every band has it's place.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	Bringing something new takes the boring factor if you aren't the best at what you do. These bands aren't the best at what they do. And this is only looking at it from an entertainment based point of view. There's no point in buying multiple scratched copies of the same cd and listening to the scratched ones with worse qualities but similar sounds. If music is to grow and expand over time into newer and more exciting things we need some originality. Once something has been done as well as could have been done MORE than once you shouldn't continually run it down with knock offs. Make your own sound or piss off.
eternium 12.19.10	"Who cares if they bring something new?" Now you see why people have a problem with you. If what you're doing isn't unique in some way, even if it's minor, then it might as well be pointless. Being an artist is about putting your own personal touch on things and to copy the work of others is to make your own absolutely worthless.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	Very well said Eternium.
Synesthete 12.19.10	eternium, an artist does not have to be unique. the songs have to be unique. it takes a lot for a song to sound just like another when you've heard the song a few times. for that reason, a band that rips off early killswitch isn't necessarily worse than killswitch. sure, somebody may respect killswitch's creativity more than that of their clone band, but that doesn't bring the entertainment factor of individual songs down. in my opinon.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	You don't need to say "In my opinion", ever. It makes you sound insecure. It was already obvious that it was just your opinion. An artist doesn't HAVE to be unique. But they're a waste of time if they're not.
Synesthete 12.19.10	sometimes its alright to say "in my opinion"...
Kimm 12.19.10	Every band us inherently unique. A lot of people say all the metalcore I listen to sounds exactly the same, but to me they just don't. Personally I don't think a band should have to think about what they're bringing to the music industry that hasn't been heard before. I respect bands that do that, but if another band just plays music that I enjoy listening to, I don't care if it's all been done before.
Kimm 12.19.10	*is inherently unique. And yes, when you say "in my opinion" it's kind of a reminder that the person isn't necessarily saying you're wrong, but that there is always more than one perspective and that neither perspective is wrong.
Synesthete 12.19.10	...in my opinion
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	There's no point in listening to two metalcore bands.
Kimm 12.19.10	Oh man that sounded redundant. Sorry.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	"And yes, when you say "in my opinion" it's kind of a reminder that the person isn't necessarily saying you're wrong, but that there is always more than one perspective and that neither perspective is wrong." It's already obvious that there's more than one perspective.
Kimm 12.19.10	Sure there is. Serious question: do you actually think less of a person for listening to metalcore? Sometimes the way sone of you guys talk gives me the impression that you're angry that I like metalcore haha.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	Well, nobody else would state that opinion. Because YES, artists need to be fucking unique. That's the definition of being an artist, you shmuck. There's a difference between having influences and being completely and blatantly derivative. 1 and 2 on this list are quite good actually, the rest have little to no redeeming qualities. 8 sucks because their clean sections are not only low-quality, but they do not mesh with the harsh sections at all, which makes the music jarring in a horrible way.
Kimm 12.19.10	Oh yes, OP - do you like Demon Hunter?
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	I don't think less of you. That would be pretty immature. I just think that whatever you say that's music related is less credible.
Kimm 12.19.10	Yeah, but a band can be unique without "bringing something new" to the music industry.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	Do you even know what unique means kimm?
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	I understand that. However, Synesthe..whatever said that an artist does not have to be unique, which is the most ridiculously false statement I have ever read.
Kimm 12.19.10	So you don't think less of me, you just think less of my opinions. Lol, that's okay. A lot of the melodic sections in bands like AILD, WoA, and Demon Hunter are just really easy to connect with I find. I don't understand why metalcore bands get hated on so much.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	When you're passionate about art. It's disgusting when people that claim to be "artists" don't actually bring anything new to it.
Kimm 12.19.10	Unique just means different from any other. So a band can take something from one influence, somethig else from another and something else from yet another to create a sound that is unique, but doesn't actually have something "new and exciting" that hasn't been heard somewhere else. Do you get what I'm saying? Kind of like of you mix a whole bunch of ingredients together you can make something unique, but the ingredients you made it from have all been used before.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	Because the genre is flooded with shitty half-wits who think they can make music exactly like everyone else. Hence, there's a huge excess of horrible bands making up a good percentage of metalcore. I actually enjoy AILD and Demon Hunter.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	...and you just described music.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	"Do you get what I'm saying? Kind of like of you mix a whole bunch of ingredients together you can make something unique, but the ingredients you made it from have all been used before." It's not like that though. They don't mix the ingredients at all. They just rip off other bands. They may say they enjoy other bands and say that they take influence from them but, that doesn't change the fact that they sound exactly the same like a band that's already done what they're doing.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	pillow's right. Most metalcore bands are taking influence, they're copying everything to a T.
Kimm 12.19.10	I'm confused.
FearThyEvil 12.19.10	Well 2 and 7 are actually really good metalcore the rest not so much. Try 7 Angels 7 Plagues
Kimm 12.19.10	Okay no, now I see what you're saying. Just...can you give me an example of a band that did that?
Synesthete 12.19.10	Thy Cross...what i was trying to say is that the value of music lies in the experience of the listener. the listener can enjoy a song in two ways: 1. to respect and be moved by the art 2. to simply enjoy the sound of the music not all bands are 'artists'. some can be enjoyed only in the second sense. it's ok to listen to some bands who do nothing to advance their art, so long as the songs are still fun.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	4, 5, and 8. EDIT: whoops, wrong ones.
Kimm 12.19.10	For Today actually is very unique, if I can just point that out. I can't think of a single band that sounds the same.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	@Syne: Then please don't refer to them as "artists".
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	"For Today actually is very unique, if I can just point that out. I can't think of a single band that sounds the same." Try expanding your taste some more. Stop listening to Metalcore for awhile and just take the recs sputnik gives you.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	@Kimm: Bollocks, they sound exactly like every other Christcore band, only with more breakdowns. Also, I just listened to "A Higher Standard" and it sounded like a horrible Zao rip-off. P.S. You need to listen to Zao.
Synesthete 12.19.10	you're right, i used artist when i meant to say band. my mistake
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	P.S. You need to listen to Zao. [2]
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	I'd like to point out that I said ABR were "quite good" earlier.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	ABR is the best band on this list. Although, I do think they need to start experimenting now before they just become another boring Metalcore band.
Kimm 12.19.10	Did you read my review of Ekklesia? I know the music isn't that great. Their other albums are way better. Also I really hope you guys don't actually think I only listen to metalcore. I actually listen to a lot more indie lately and pretty much everything else. I think I need to rate some more albums and shake this "metalcore only" rep. I just defend it a lot because it takes so much hate.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	I'm aware of your views on Ekklesia. But none of their other albums are any more unique, only of minutely higher quality.
Wolfhorde 12.19.10	Pillow's right. If you make something unique in whatever way you do indeed something new. And it doesn't matter if the base-model has been used before if it's now used way better. Also, most metalcore bands just lack originalty or any kind of musical ambition. Most metalcore-vocalists are technically bad, the instrumentation is boring and the lyrics are so stupid that you either want to hit the band or laugh till you cry. Which is why the bands eternium already posted are the "classics", because they did in case something new.
Synesthete 12.19.10	Kimm's right, For Today is fairly unique. they have a sound that seems more lyric-central than the rest of modern core.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	No.
Wolfhorde 12.19.10	No. [2]
Kimm 12.19.10	Wolfhorde - You raised a lot of good points, but please don't pull out the lyrics card because that's just begging me to say something that will most likely spark a debate. Not now though, it's two in the morning and I have to be up in six hours. Goodnight all, thanks for the good discussion.
Synesthete 12.19.10	no, what? no, For Today does not have a lyric-central sound? I'd say that the guitars are kept as simple as possible in many parts because the bands hopes to draw attention to the lyrics. no, that aspect is not unique? what band does it the same way?
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	You can't win the lyrics debate if your side of the debate is attached to your faith.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	For Today makes it clear many times in their live performances that their lyrics are the integral part of the band.
Wolfhorde 12.19.10	No, I'm not seeing any kind of "the lyricals are a point of the view!" thing. There are lyrics that are just terribly bad, uninnovative and boring. Just because someone being religious and the lyrics being religious doesn't make them better. Lol, and saying a band is good for tuning down the musical ambition to make the lyrics more important (olol) is just a bad excuse. There are plenty of bands with a great focus on lyrics, but they also use complex instrumentations. Also the lyrics are way deeper than some religious blabber.
Kimm 12.19.10	Okay one more comment before bed. The thing that's unique about For Today is that they are seeking to make music for Christian listeners, not for anyone looking for a cool band. So no, it won't appeal to most people, but to people like me and my friend the OP, they are just incredible. Try to wrap your head around that poorly explained concept while I go to sleep.
Synesthete 12.19.10	i'm not saying the lyrics are good. i think they're pretty average. i'm saying the instrumentation attracts attention to the lyrics, and that's a unique factor in their sound.
Wolfhorde 12.19.10	That's just as idiotic as it gets. That's like saying I like viking and pagan metal more than anything else because I'm very interested in norse mythology.
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	"The thing that's unique about For Today is that they are seeking to make music for Christian listeners, not for anyone looking for a cool band." That doesn't make them a unique band. It just makes them less afraid of peer pressure.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	Also, that doesn't make them unique because THERE'S A BUNCH OF OTHER BANDS DOING IT.
ThyCrossAwaits 12.19.10	That's like saying I like viking and pagan metal more than anything else because I'm very interested in norse mythology. [2]
Synesthete 12.19.10	well, no, that's not like saying you'll like viking metal because of an interest in mythology. the Christian lyrics appeal to a Christian because people like to hear lyrics relating to their life. mythological lyrics don't have the same effect on somebody who is just interested in mythology
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	"well, no, that's not like saying you'll like viking metal because of an interest in mythology. the Christian lyrics appeal to a Christian because people like to hear lyrics relating to their life. mythological lyrics don't have the same effect on somebody who is just interested in mythology." It could be. Taking interest in something can range from being curious to believing in something to the point of being an extremist.
Synesthete 12.19.10	when an interest reaches the point of extremism we generally stop calling it an interest and start calling it a religion lol. but yeah
pillowswantyoursoul 12.19.10	It'd still be an interest. Just a massive one.
Butkuiss 12.19.10	The vocalist in 1 follows the same ideas over and over; there's barely any differentiation or variety. There's just better metalcore out there. And yeah, I do find Christian lyrics wear thin after a while.
Synesthete 12.19.10	not too much vocal variation, but the guitarists i find to be creative compared to a lot of bands in the scene. plus i'm a fan of the slick production.
Butkuiss 12.19.10	ohai guise pendulum iz tha bezzt metuhcorez band evurz.
xstaytrue18x 12.19.10	the ghost inside, misery index, misery singnals, for the fallen dreams, killswitch engage(old stuff), shai hulud.
THIEF 12.19.10	Nothing wrong with this list (except 8 cringe). And yes your right, saying you dislike an album because its christian is a lame excuse. The lyrics in most christian metalcore usually aren't even overtly religious, but I guess a lot of people on this site are easily offended. I used to be into metalcore, so I'll try and give a few recs: Machinemade God- Masked The Sorrow- Blessings from a Blackened Sky The Word Alive- Deceiver Darkest Hour- Undoing Ruin Botch- We are the Romans (every metalcore fan needs to at least listen to this album once, its fun hearing how the genre was born, and a lot of Botches style is still used in the scene today.)
AbyssalCreation 12.19.10	Misery SIGNALS^, Taken, Skycamefalling, Rosesdead,Poison the Well,Strongarm,Life In Your Way,Beloved They're good because they put an ambient/more melodic spin on the genre.
ffs 12.19.10	idk man converge
Synesthete 12.20.10	thanks, guys. i appreciate the recs
FuckedUp 12.20.10	Life In Your Way- Waking Giants. Reach The End and Salty Grave fucking rule.
FreePizzaDay 12.20.10	"Botch- We are the Romans (every metalcore fan needs to at least listen to this album once, its fun hearing how the genre was born, and a lot of Botches style is still used in the scene today.)" Botch didn't invent metalcore, but I understand the spirit of what you're trying to say, so I'll drop it. I will recommend Converge, Starkweather and Integrity
NeutralThunder12 12.20.10	everything except ABR sucks balls Between the Buried and Me- Colors, The Silent Circus Converge- Jane Doe, Axe to Fall Knut- Challenger The Faceless- Akeldama (Technical Death Metal/Core) Misery Signals- Controller, Mirrors The Dillinger Escape Plan- Miss Machine SikTh- Death of a Dead Day Deadguy- Fixation on a Co-Worker Botch- We Are the Romans (not their best, but essential) Protest the Hero- Kezia Iron Thrones- Discography (New and totally awesome progressive/metalcore band) Cave In- Until Your Heart Stops (fucking amazing)
Iamthe Nightstars 12.20.10	Did you purposely pick poor to average metalcore albums for this list?
botb 12.20.10	some of this isn't that bad tbh it's like entry level but some of it isn't bad
Hawks 12.20.10	I don't listen to much metalcore, but you should definitely get: Underoath - Define the Great Line Amia Venera Landscape - The Long Procession All That Remains - The Fall of Ideals The Dillinger Escape Plan - Option Paralysis Killswitch Engage - The End of Heartache
whywontyoudie 12.20.10	wyankeif rec'd the Trenches album, which i recently got into. album is fucking good.
StrawBuilder 12.20.10	i found that when i listened to this kind of metalcore i track hopped between bands, not fully appreciating a full album. probably because it does get a bit samey before the 40 or so minutes are up. Used to love 2 and 7 though but yeah, once I got into bands like botch, 7a7p and shai hulud i realised the genre had better things to offer
Hawks 12.20.10	Also, The Opposite of December by Poison the Well.
StrawBuilder 12.20.10	oh and check out this or the apocalypse - haunt whats left if you havent already. probably right up your street