Valkoor952: Star Wars | Sputnikmusic

Valkoor952 08.29.16	Star wars 4 life btw.
Rik VII 08.29.16	honestly don't really care for Star Wars beyond the original trilogy. those are really good though. I like the world etc., but during the last 20 years it just lost its charme. Like, it was the mixture of everything that made the original movies so great. It's not only sci-fi, it's also got influences from samurai movies, western, wwII movies, fantasy & fairytales ... I feel a lot of that's totally gone missing. There's no flair anymore whatsoever. Anyway, I enjoyed Ep. I back when I was a kid, I don't think it is THAT bad as people make it out to be, but it isn't particularly good either, especially not as a Star Wars flick. The second one, on the other hand, is really bad. Third one is actually kinda good in some places, really bad in other places, all in all far from what it could have been, but still the best of the prequel trilogy. Ep 7 was meh.
anarchistfish 08.29.16	They haven't discussed making an Obi Wan spin off have they? Not particularly hyped for Rogue One, it could be ok I guess but definitely feels like milking it. I'd prefer a Boba Fett spin off or something if they're set on that era. That being said, Ep 7 was amazing and I'm hyped for 8.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Rikkroach My thoughts are exact. Though I do care more for Star Wars. It's something I grew up with and to this day they are my favourite movies. The Universe that Lucas created is just amazing.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@anarchist I gotta disagree Ep 7 was unoriginal in evey single aspect. It lacked the star wars magic for me.
Rik VII 08.29.16	well don't get me wrong, I too ran through the living room acting like a Jedi when I was 7 years old. It just grew off me, even though I still get the charm of it and like to watch the original trilogy from time to time. I wouldn't have clicked on this list if it didn't interest me at all. It's just that the whole franchise is totally jaded by now so I can't get myself to care for new stuff coming out. And even though there were some things about Ep. 7 that I liked, I can't help but don't really want to know how it's continued. I guess it's because in the end, Ep 7 was painfully uneventful.
anarchistfish 08.29.16	Totally disagree. Did veer slightly too much on the unoriginal (though I think 8 will rectify that) but it totally nailed the Star Wars vibe IMO.
Rik VII 08.29.16	it was great and fitting optically, but imo it was missing the magic. as dumb as it sounds, I do believe that Star Wars needs more fairytale aspects to really feel like Star Wars.
AtomicWaste 08.29.16	Rouge One looks pretty rad. VII was great. A movie about the younger Han Solo earning his reputation as a scoundrel doesn't sound terrible to me (if done right - we have almost zero details on it). I dunno if I'd really want more Obi Wan (the prequels were his thing, really). I mean, I've seen no reason not to trust them from a movie perspective so far. And let's not forget that Lucas brought us the 3D cinematic journey to find Jabba's baby blob thingy (lol). Disney can only do better than that. As for TV? Well, yeah, of course anything on the Disney channel is going to be marketed directly to kids...
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Ep 7 was missing the magic. There wasn't anything original. I mean look at the prequels they were far from the greatest movies but with each new episode they gave ussomething new and unique. Phantom Menace had Naboo and Coruscant, Attack of the clones had The Geonosis Arena, Revenge had all sorts of new stuff most notably Mustafar. Here we just got yavin 2.0 and tattoine 2.0 Oh and let's not forget the shitty Death Star 2.0 which is beyond me why someone like Kasdan would agree to. It was just a fan service throughout the whole movie. Basically an original fans bait to see Han, Luke and Leia even though the story itself was whack. Lucas isn't a very good screenwriter but his vision for Star Wars is something no-one can replicate.
Rik VII 08.29.16	"Attack of the clones had The Geonosis Arena" well yeah, that's about it. it's a red desert. nothing original and unique tbh. agreed about the other eps though. Edit: Oh wait, I read "area" instead of "arena". still, it's just a maximum of 10 minutes in that place. don't think it deserves a lot of recognition.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	I mean ok, still the droid factory and I also forgot KAMINO which is actually the most interesting one.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	And I mean it wasn't just the visuals it was the story the whole clone army the whole mystery of the sith and who created the clones etc. the battle droids too. You know all of this stuff was original and interesting while awakens didn't do anything as interesting as this.
Rik VII 08.29.16	Kamino looks cool but there's not much to do there. the droid factory only served as the setting for a 100% forgettable action sequence, imo. I'm really missing places like they had in the original trilogy. Like Hoth, it felt lively and exciting even though it's basically an ice desert.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Well yeah it may not have had much screentime ( kamino) but it served it's purpose and was later used so much in the EU and especially the best Clone Wars episodes were centered around clones and their homeworld. Btw have you watched the clone wars ?
Rik VII 08.29.16	never watched a whole episode. the only scene I saw in full was the first fight with Grievous, if I remember correctly.. I guess the story isn't the worst part about the prequels, it's just that it is told in a totally helpless manner. Lucas really didn't know where to go with his scripts. Instead of dealing with Anakin becoming Vader, he just had to show more battles and stuff. On the other hand, I thought that a lot of the branchings of the prequel trilogy were unnecessary and distracted from the things the story actually was meant to tell.
MO 08.29.16	"I mean look at the prequels they were far from the greatest movies but with each new episode they gave ussomething new and unique. Phantom Menace had Naboo and Coruscant, Attack of the clones had The Geonosis Arena, Revenge had all sorts of new stuff most notably Mustafar" it was so fucking tacky. the entirety of the prequels was just a rushed mess which equated to a kid flinging paint onto a canvas. it was basically let's just throw as much shit on the screen as humanly possible. it had the farthest thing from magic. it also doesn't help the stories were atrocious and the whole explaining how Vader became Vader didn't NEED to be shown
Sinternet 08.29.16	VII was great Rogue One will be great stop your damn bs and enjoy it pleb
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Mo That's not true, the Vader story needed to be shown. If you think it was pointless and yet you think force awakens was necessary then we have totally different views.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Sinternet You think I don't want to enjoy it ? Hell I enjoy the prequels (mostly) but TFA just doesn't click with me, I'm sorry. I don't know about Rogue One. Might be good. I'm not setting out to hate it or some bs like that.
Rik VII 08.29.16	the Vader origin story took a lot of the magic that he had in the original trilogy. I think everyone had his/her own version of him becoming a Sith, hunting the jedi and fightng Obi-Wan. The prequel trilogy is a version of that story that a lot of people didn't want to see. Because it's not as emotionally intense as it should have been, especially because it is so damn rushed and still doesn't have a lot of interesting stuff tot tell.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Ok but why does nobody say the same stuff about TFA. Return of the Jedi ended perfectly. The Skywalker story was told and everyone lived happily ever after. Instead 30 years into the future Han is back to being basically a bum, no future with Leia, Luke ran away like a bitch because Kylo went to the dark side and apparently Luke is too proud to fight him. TFA just ruins ROTJ. @Rikkroach On another note, I think you should check out Clone Wars. The first season is iffy because they were still trying to find their footing but Season2-3 onwards are some of the best Star Wars stories you'll ever see. I really recommend it to be honest. Season 6 especially had such a big connection to the movies and a lot of the untold stuff in the prequels got presented here. It's not a typical kids show, you can believe that.
AtomicWaste 08.29.16	tbh, I loved VII because it stopped trying to distract you with pretty colors and brought the focus back to character and plot. Sure, there were new and attractive visuals and new places in the prequels, but they were all hollow and relatively pointless. Plus, I think the point of VII was to redirect and refocus by using what's similar. It really achieved what Lucas said he was out to achieve with Ep. I by creating similarities that were different, but carried a "rhyme" to the original. The difference is that we actually care about a lot of the characters involved and we don't already know what's going to happen next.
MO 08.29.16	"That's not true, the Vader story needed to be shown. If you think it was pointless and yet you think force awakens was necessary then we have totally different views." what? the force awakens is a natural continuation of the story of star wars. that's it, it's obviously necessary if they want to keep milking this cash cow lmao how vader became vader in the prequels doesn't matter. all we needed to know is he was a jedi who was lured to the dark side. that's it, we didn't need to be explained through a completely terribly written and forced story of how he became Vader. the entirety of the prequels are utter horseshit, contrived and horrendously executed. simple as that
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Well I'm speaking for myself but I don't really care about most of the characters. Poe Dameron is the exception, everyone else I didn't like. Finn was Jar Jar 2 for me in the sense that he was there purely for comic relief and Rey, well I've said it before and I've read arguments and all that and I still think she's op/flawless. Kylo is ok I guess. Although I thought more people would hate him because he is basically whiny anakin 2.0
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Mo. Episode 3 is still a very good movie. Simple as that. "that's it, it's obviously necessary if they want to keep milking this cash cow" And that's my problem with it. Instead of taking a risk with a different era/exciting setting likethe Old Republic for example they chose to play it safe.
AtomicWaste 08.29.16	"TFA just ruins ROTJ." This is called resetting the script by shattering the myth of the happy ending. The rebellion is and always has been up against the upper hand of a Galactic Empire. Sure, they grow stronger at the end of Jedi by defeating the Emperor and destroying Death Star II, but politics and revolution are rarely as easy as killing the king and blowing up the palace. Neither is rebuilding an order of psychic laser-sword knights when there's only one and he only got like half-trained. I love that the new trilogy is taking us out of happy ending land (I'm sure it'll return there in IX) and forcing some of our old heroes to confront their shortcomings (Luke with the jedi order, Leia in leading the rebellion in their ongoing fight, Han with his abandonment and struggle to maintain ties to his family). The new heroes are also likeable and have lots of potential to develop, including Kylo Ren, even though he's an angsty teenager, we all know he'll probably end up redeemed by IX and have a sweet old-school Vader-Obi duel with Luke where there's more words than jumps, kicks, and backslashes. There's a lot of good there and a lot of potential in what's to come. A lot who take issue are really just overly critical because they don't like that the reset required some similarity, but I think it was really necessary to make us forget about Hayden Christensen yelling "I hate you!" and killing children.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Hayden Christensen yelling I hate you and that final Mustafar scene was the best part of episode 3 though.
MO 08.29.16	"Episode 3 is still a very good movie. Simple as that." i mean the emperor was good i guess, but come on it was so bad hahaha. that forced ending with vader in the suit yelling NOOOoooo is fucking beyond cringey and probably the worst thing ever in a star wars movie. it was like a big fat joke. the first fucking 20 minutes was like slap stick comedy "OH NO, RAY SHIELDS", "how'd this happen we're smarter than this!!??" just awful
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Oh because Finn telling his cringey jokes, like "you got a boyfriend, a cute boyfriend ?" is totally original star wars comedy And yeah there is shit in episode 3. But it's less than the other prequels and actually has a lot of good scenes.
MO 08.29.16	I agree Ep. VII had some cringey scenes/dialogue for sure but at least it helped serve as a bit of character development...as opposed to that terrible Obi-wan/Anakin dialogue from EPIII making it seem like they were totally horrible jedi and no mindful of their surroundings at all (something Yoda preaches to Luke all the time). if anything the phantom menace was the best prequel because like you said at least it had a bit of something new and exciting at the start...only to fall into being a clusterfuck of terrible writing and the worst display of CGI ever created. EPII and III were basically a let's just get this shit over with couple of movies. I can't think of any good scenes from either one tbh. the worst thing ever is the final lightsaber battle between obi-wan and anakin
Sinternet 08.29.16	in what way was Finn 'Jar Jar 2'
Sinternet 08.29.16	yeah episode iii really sucked hard like 4/10 max
MO 08.29.16	lol if that, the emperor brings it up to a 3
Negator 08.29.16	The newest one that came out was absolute dog stinking worthless trash in my eyes. I wish they would just make some new Old Republic movies. Or maybe I should start reading Star Wars again.
ZippaThaRippa 08.29.16	The final lightsaber battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin was sick as fuck what are you on about. HE HAD THE HIGH GROUND. Although to be fair, Darth Maul had the high ground and Obi-Wan wrecked him. Speaking of which: DUEL OF THE FATES
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Sinternet Not exactly Jar Jar obviously. But all the time he was on screen it was his stupid jokes. Non-stop, like Jar Jar doing stupid stuff all the time he was on-screen. Obviously Jar Jar is worse than Finn, but I still don't dig him. @Mo. I thought the battle was good tbh. And come on, yeah ep 2 was really bad, but ep 3 had great scenes, the opening scenes and the dooku fight were great. The order 66 sequence showing all jedi's being killed with that haunting music was brilliant, the silent thoughts and pain of Anakin and Padme while looking out of the window is also amazing, the way Sidious manipulated and orchestrated the whole thing was great as well. A good movie in my book tbh, not flawless but good.
ZippaThaRippa 08.29.16	I like Finn because he was a regular human guy who had the balls to wield a lightsaber and take on a Sith in 1v1. Sure he got wrecked but damn he tried at least.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	The bias with hating the prequels is sometimes ridiculous to be honest. At least if people didn't love TFA I was going to be okay with it but here we are.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Zippa The fact that he could wield a lightsaber was stupid on its own.
Sinternet 08.29.16	yeah exactly he's a relatable character being thrust into an unrelatable situation what's not to like?
ZippaThaRippa 08.29.16	Why is that?
Negator 08.29.16	TFA isnt the newest movie right?
ZippaThaRippa 08.29.16	Yah it is
Valkoor952 08.29.16	You know what this could go on for hours, and I just don't want to do it. I like Episode 3 and Episode 1 (to an extent) and I don't like Episode 7. I mean it's just the way it is. But hey if you liked TFA kudos to you, I'm glad somebody enjoyed it like I enjoyed the aforementioned episodes.
MO 08.29.16	"You know what this could go on for hours, and I just don't want to do it." "I tnink it's time for a little Star Wars discussion. I'll express my thoughts on the current state of the franchise, and this is basically just a general discussion thread." .........................k
Gmork89 08.29.16	Episode 3 was turds in every direction. If the prequels didn't have "Star Wars" attached to them they would be direct to VHS because Blu Ray and DVD would be too hard to fund based on sales.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Mo. Discussion upon the things I mentioned or maybe stuff from the story the actual lore, and not a heated argument on whether or not that episode was good or it was dog shit.
ZippaThaRippa 08.29.16	Wait but I wanna know why you think that it's stupid that Finn could wield a lightsaber
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Zippa Because it was said that a non-jedi couldn't wield a lightsaber and Finn was able to withstand Kylo a trained jedi who killed all of his friends/ other jedi's and still couldn't finish a non-jedi in 2 seconds. Couldn't he just lift him and throw him somewhere or choke him ? Why fight a clown with a lightsabre and not just finish him on the spot ?
MO 08.29.16	"Discussion upon the things I mentioned or maybe stuff from the story the actual lore" you said you wanted to discuss the current state of the franchise...which has to include the prequels which is why we got into it. I think the prequels directly affected how episode 7 was made, ie. JJ. Abrams took an EXTREMELY safe route and made sure to not repeat what happened with those pieces of filthy turds. there were video logs explaining how they were using actual props, monsters and sets and how there was less of a focus on CGI, etc etc
Gmork89 08.29.16	You can also apply all of this nitpicking to the original trilogy and find plenty of similar discrepancies, now were lucky enough to have the internet where everyone can pick everything apart rather than just enjoying the film.
Negator 08.29.16	TFA sucked dick
Valkoor952 08.29.16	EXTREMELY safe would be a good description. And yeah good on him for the practical effects but it didn't make the movie anymore special just because it had practical effects. The effects of ROTS have aged up pretty well if you ask me still. Anyways I wanna hear top 3 favourite characters, let's do something different.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	TFA did a fantastic job of taking Star Wars back to its roots, giving the universe a sense of cyclical myth, and setting up a new trilogy with great original characters. It was slightly better than Return of the Ewoks, and far better than the three prequels combined. Just admit it and then you can get on with the rest of your life.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Better than ROTJ ? Sorry buddy I'd rather jump off somewhere than admit that.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	Both TFA and ROTJ rehashed the Death Star plot, but TFA did a much more exciting job of it. Starkiller base felt like a much bigger threat than Death Star 2.0, and you actually had the characters running round and having dramatic confrontations on the surface of the big bad ship, rather than on a forest moon nearby with a bunch of teddy bears.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	I absolutely loved the redemption of Vader, but the significance of that was inseparably tied to it being the third instalment of a trilogy. There's no way TFA could have something as powerful as that, being the episode that boots a trilogy up, rather than concludes it.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Nah that is simply not true. It didn't feel like a threat AT ALL and was just plain stupid. The second time it worked because it was an important plot point/ the rebels not knowing it wasn't finished, in TFA it was just there for ... I don't even know what it was there for. "actually had the characters running round and having dramatic confrontations on the surface of the big bad ship" Soo ... basically A New Hope but without any exciting dramatical confrontations.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@polyethylene Well that's true but A New Hope wasn't dependant on any story it was a breath of fresh air, something different which TFA isn't. Don't tell me there's no way they could have made it better.
Rik VII 08.29.16	to be honest, TFA didn't really feel like the first part of a trilogy. It felt like the prologue to a giant marketing campaign.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	Kylo killing Han was much more powerful than Vader killing Obi Wan. We'd known and loved Han for four movies at that point. It was also very Freudian, a son killing his father. It felt like the point of no return for a character who up until that point hadn't felt truly evil. We knew Vader was evil as soon as he walked onscreen. Obi Wan, at the time of his death, had been in the series for only... wan movie. Coming at the end of a completely lifeless lightsaber duel, it really didn't feel like it meant much. Also the three way lightsaber fight in TFA was great, with an injured Kylo trying to run off of nothing more than pain and rage (literally punching his wound)... and coming off second best. That scene showed the fundamental flaw with Sith philosophy, that you should operate based on base and negative emotions, better than any other scene in the series.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Okay, come on the scene with Kylo and Han was total bs. It was predictable the moment Han stepped foot on that bridge I knew he was fucked. And the stupid dialogue "I need help with something will you help me" was so transparent that when Han died I was rolling my eyes, but sadly not out of sadness for Han, but for the movie.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	I'm not saying TFA was perfect, but it accomplished what it set out to do, and was incredibly entertaining. The prequels are failures as pieces of storytelling, and even dumb entertainment... with the possible exception of the pod race and the Darth Maul fight. Everything else was just a botoxed, CGI mess. The fight on Geonosis or Mustafar? Good god, all those ridiculous flips hurt my soul.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Also nobody said the Obi Wan death scene was emotional. It wasn't supposed to be, they didn't try to shoehorn it like TFA just to satisfy Harrison Ford's wishes.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	@Poly I can only remember two flips on Mustafar to be honest, and WHY is that a problem. In the cartoon the jedi are fucking unbelievable making flips jumps all kinds of shit, so why shouldn't they be AS powerful in the movies, especially wen everyone loves CW.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	How was it shoehorned in, if it served a valuable purpose in a vital character's arc? Didn't you just say that A New Hope had dramatic confrontations aboard the Death Star? You can hardly have drama without emotional investment, otherwise it is just empty spectacle.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	Sith and Jedi shouldn't be doing 'fucking unbelievable' flips, outside of a kids cartoon. It breaks all suspension of disbelief and is corny as hell.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	I was talking more about the Han,Leia,Luke confrontations, and yeah they weren't dramatic as literally emotionally dramatic but they were still great and extremely fun. Nothing comes close to that, not even episode 5.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Oh but why does it break suspension ? The Jedi are fucking wizards, a magical cult, in whatever EU stuff you look be it cartoons, games like Force Unleashed or Old republic the jedi are more Op than the Original trilogy. If the jedi are really that powerful it's good to show it every now and then, just because Darth Vader and Obi wan couldn't flip because they were old as fuck doesn't mean that for example Luke who made 2 flips in ROTJ and a couple more during his training in Dagobah can't do it.
Negator 08.29.16	TFA was shiet all around
Negator 08.29.16	If you truly enjoyed TFA and ur not just meming that youre probably just some easily entertained man child who has no concept of depth and style. Also you probably never read the books. And if you did then it makes your analysis of TFA being almost perfect that much more pathetic. That movie was completely deisgned to make cash not to honor the Star Wars legacy. Im just gonna continue reading the books and watching the 10/10 movies in my head.
Negator 08.29.16	Also do you know what the Force does to those who are strong in it? Are you autistic or new to the Star Wars world? Those "fucking unbelievable" flips are just the icing on the cake of the power the Force grants.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	The books were very good agreed. I loved the Thrawn trilogy.
Negator 08.29.16	Oh nice I havent started that yet. I've been reading the Sith books. Im on the last Bane book
Polyethylene 08.29.16	So revisiting scenes and characters from the original trilogy with nostalgia and melancholy is a heartless cash grab... but fanfic novels written by talentless hacks who couldn't get a gig with their own IP, who are just trying to cash in on the Star Wars brand with their own banal interpretations of the Star Wars universe, that's high art is it? Dear lord. The Star Wars universe isn't about corny stories nobody cares about, or Jedi and Sith so powerful they can do the macarena in midair whilst wielding fifteen lightsabers. Star Wars is a fantasy story, which from the beginning stuck very close to the Campbellian theory of the hero with a thousand faces, and all of the Freudian themes, structures and other literary tropes associated with it. It is arguably the textbook hero's journey story. TFA only cemented this, and brought the universe a sense of cyclical storytelling. SW is about big major chord moments, resemblance to other heroic tales, a sense of timelessness... not an ugly hodgepodge of shit books and cartoons and video games made for people with the attention span of twelve year olds.
Rik VII 08.29.16	well agreed on some points, but TFA is definitely also made for people with the attention span of twelve year olds, as are almost all "blockbuster movies" recently.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	Okay, you're really just talking shit right now. The Thrawn Trilogy has been acclaimed by the majority of the star wars fans even Lucas said he liked the books and you know why ? Because they are REALLY good. I'm betting my ass that you haven't read nor have any idea of those books that you so adamantly shit on. The first book alone is better could-be-movie than TFA ever was.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	"talentless hacks who couldn't get a gig with their own IP, who are just trying to cash in on the Star Wars brand with their own banal interpretations of the Star Wars universe, that's high art ? " Also, did you just describe J.J Adams ?
Polyethylene 08.29.16	If TFA was truly targeted at twelve year olds, it would have featured as much noise and CGI as the prequels. Large stretches of it were actually quite understated, haunting long shots of the ruins of star destroyers etc. So acclaim = quality now? Because TFA has a 92% rating on Rotten Tomatoes... I don't give a flying fuck what Lucas thinks. Episode IV was great, with his creative control being very limited. He didn't even direct Episode V (the best one). Episode VI was good, but I think largely due to seeds sown in the previous film. The prequels were garbage. His approval of something Star Wars related means nothing to me, and in fact I'd go so far as to say it would make me skeptical of said film or book. I haven't read the Thrawn trilogy, no. I hear they're the best of the bunch. I've read some others in the series, at a younger age when I thought the prequels were awesome (so much for my credibility and taste back then). Again, episodes 4 through 7 are the Campbellian myth brought to the big screen and set in space. Star Wars is meant to be a series of blockbuster films. Its universe works best in that medium, with all of its available devices and constrictions. As much fun as I might have had with a Star Wars game, or comic, or whatever, there is something vital missing from all of these extended universe, multimedia ventures. The soul isn't properly there. Nothing gets my cynicism of heartless cash grabs ticking more than all these attempts to make money from the Star Wars names in different ways. The only true continuation of the Star Wars saga imo should be within the medium it began in, by somebody who honours and sticks close to the originals. Jar Jar Abrams did that for me. He could've told some completely different story with radically different characters, but it would have felt only superficially attached to the original trilogy. Superficial attachment = milking a franchise. Before going in wild new directions, he needed to play it safe and return to the feel and story beats of the original films. Episode VIII will have the novelty TFA lacked, trust me. It's being directed by Rian f'ing Johnson!
Rik VII 08.29.16	So not imitating the original movies = "superficial attachement"? that doesn't make much sense. the best way would have been this: telling a new story within the old atmosphere. maintaining the feeling while not repeating things we've seen before. that's possible. and it's not what Abrams did.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	"Episode 4 was great with bis creative control limited" I swear I've seen this a million times and it's total bullshit . If you watch any documentaries or read anything about A New Hope you will see that Lucas had all the power and he did the best he could with what he had. Yes he didn't direct Episode 5 but he was there every step of the way telling Irvin Keshner what he wants. "Superficial attachment = milking a franchise" This is stupid honestly. So because any sequel or continuation of the original movie/story follows said story/movie very closely it's automatically great ? And if it doesn't it's automatically trash and milking ? This is bullshit. Star Wars is so much more than 1 story, so much more than 3 movies it's an entire Universe. And whether you like it or not there are stories in the EU that are 10x better than the TFA. Even diehard fans know that. And yeah, we'll see what's gonna happen with episode 8. If it sucks ass though I really want to see your arguments then.
Negator 08.29.16	"So revisiting scenes and characters from the original trilogy with nostalgia and melancholy is a heartless cash grab... but fanfic novels written by talentless hacks who couldn't get a gig with their own IP, who are just trying to cash in on the Star Wars brand with their own banal interpretations of the Star Wars universe, that's high art is it? Dear lord." First of all, personally insulting writers for doing their job won't further your point. Those people devoutly spend their time creating new Star Wars content. And gaining revenue for a well thought out and creative story is by no means a cash grab, no matter how much you want it to be. Most of those writers dont even get much revenue but they do it because they have a passion for the SWU. Again banal interpretations... bitch you havent even read any of them so what are you really saying? Every writer is different so again , what are you really saying? And maybe if the revisit was done in a better fashion then I'd of enjoyed it but it so tacky and really not better than the first version.
Negator 08.29.16	"The Star Wars universe isn't about corny stories nobody cares about, or Jedi and Sith so powerful they can do the macarena in midair whilst wielding fifteen lightsabers. Star Wars is a fantasy story, which from the beginning stuck very close to the Campbellian theory of the hero with a thousand faces, and all of the Freudian themes, structures and other literary tropes associated with it. It is arguably the textbook hero's journey story. TFA only cemented this, and brought the universe a sense of cyclical storytelling. SW is about big major chord moments, resemblance to other heroic tales, a sense of timelessness... not an ugly hodgepodge of shit books and cartoons and video games made for people with the attention span of twelve year olds." That first statement is so ignorant. Corny stories to you are what keep the Star Wars universe fresh and invigorated. Without those talentless hacks of writers creating new content the SWU would decay and grow stale. SW is like you said about the hero with a thousand face. Which is why its essential and only natural to create brand new content. The writers of these books have to know so much about the SWU in order for it to follow the proper Star Wars timeline and align it self with other characters. While the cartoons and video games are childish, the books are for made by people for people who truly love the Star Wars Universe. Also fuck all that Freudian bullshit.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	Telling a new story within the old atmosphere is precisely what episode 8 and 9 are going to do. If they fail to do so, I'll change all my ratings to 5s of Blood on the Dancefloor... them stakes are high bruh. Just to reiterate... superficial attachment is where I'm genuinely wondering why they have decided to tell this story in the same world, for any reason other than the brand it is attached to. The Star Wars films, hell even those awful prequels, were telling the story of the Skywalker family. Episode 8 will confirm that Snoke is Plagueis, and that he is responsible for the virgin birth of Anakin, and therefore Luke, and therefore Rey, the true chosen one. It is all one saga, following a single lineage through three generations. The other generations will get referenced and riffed on, just like they have in any other successful multi-generational saga, e.g. Dune, Tolkien, the Edge Chronicles, you name it. If a new trilogy came out that was Star Wars only in name and vaguely in setting then I'd honestly rather watch a new story that had nothing to do with Star Wars, rather than something trying to ride those coattails. I don't think sticking to formula is inherently great (I want episode 8 and 9 to be adventurous as much as the next person). I don't think superficial attachment is inherently awful. But if either of those were to be considered milking a franchise / brand, I think there is a much stronger case for the tonally inconsistent, unrelated fanfic with the Star Wars label chucked on to shift units being the milk.
Polyethylene 08.29.16	"Also fuck all that Freudian bullshit" not to sound pretentious but I've studied classical mythology and all of the tropes of father vs son, crossing the threshold of adventure etc etc etc etc that you find in Hercules, Perseus, Theseus, Gilgamesh, Maui et al is Star Wars to a fucking T it is so deliberate and omnipresent, to dismiss it is to fundamentally misunderstand Star Wars lol
Polyethylene 08.29.16	go back to editing a wookiepedia entry about some fucking planet that nobody gives a shit about and has nothing to do with anything
Negator 08.29.16	"If TFA was truly targeted at twelve year olds, it would have featured as much noise and CGI as the prequels. Large stretches of it were actually quite understated, haunting long shots of the ruins of star destroyers etc." So your main argument as to why the prequels were shit is because they used modern technology to enhance the scenes and overcome obstacles would otherwise made it extremely difficult for them to replicate. I guess we can throw LotR in the trash can too for that matter. Also if we're talking music, we can throw Meshuggah, Darkthrone and other bans who use drum simulators for using technology. "So acclaim = quality now? Because TFA has a 92% rating on Rotten Tomatoes... " Exactly why its shit "I haven't read the Thrawn trilogy, no. I hear they're the best of the bunch. I've read some others in the series, at a younger age when I thought the prequels were awesome (so much for my credibility and taste back then)." Lol so youre basis on talentless hack writers is your little experience reading them as a kid. Good job showing us youre a idiot with baseless points. "Again, episodes 4 through 7 are the Campbellian myth brought to the big screen and set in space. Star Wars is meant to be a series of blockbuster films. Its universe works best in that medium, with all of its available devices and constrictions." Again it doesnt only have to span in that 1 time period though. The SWU is so unlimited there is so much space to create new blockbuster films in different time periods. "As much fun as I might have had with a Star Wars game, or comic, or whatever, there is something vital missing from all of these extended universe, multimedia ventures. The soul isn't properly there. Nothing gets my cynicism of heartless cash grabs ticking more than all these attempts to make money from the Star Wars names in different ways." Funny because I felt the exact opposite when I finished reading Darth Plagueis. I got that feeling everyone feels when they finish a season of their favorite show or a book, sadness. A wish that there was 1 chapter more. Or another book. Im thinking the problem is probably just you. Because it is up to the reader to bestow a book the respect it deserves. And if you get into a book already thinking its a bullshit then its gonna be soulless bullshit.
Negator 08.29.16	"If a new trilogy came out that was Star Wars only in name and vaguely in setting then I'd honestly rather watch a new story that had nothing to do with Star Wars, rather than something trying to ride those coattails." I dont have a problem with a revist of the old movies either lol, I just think it was a pile of wasted time (for me). Creating new movies based on the Old Republic is riding the coattails? Im pretty sure youre memeing at this point cuz all the people I know that like Star Wars are dying to see some new Old Republic shit.
Valkoor952 08.29.16	ahh see there's the problem for you the world ends at your doorstep, just because you don't give a shit about that planet or that story doesn't mean the rest of the world- the star wars fans don't give a shit about it. And what you said is my exact point. The Skywalker story was TOLD in eps 1-6 we had the chosen one we had the redemption we had the happy ending, that's it. There shouldn't have been anymore Skywalker related movies, because the new skywalker story will be shoehorned into the old one and it will ruin everything. The thing about the "true chosen one" is such bullshit that if they ever went with that I would seriously consider decapitating myself.
Negator 08.29.16	Agreed, I dont see how they could possibly add another Skywalker movie is just gonna kill the storyline. And thats the thing about Star Wars , you move back to the Old Republic and there is so much lore to grab from there to ignite a new flame into Star Wars.
AlexKzillion 08.29.16	"Attack of the clones had The Geonosis Arena" That part always puts me to sleep now.
Rik VII 08.30.16	it's defnitely very clichéd and it doesn't look good either. the whole prequel trilogy hasn't aged well.
AlexKzillion 08.30.16	I think it's held up better then most things from I and II visually (at least the part before all the jedi appear). III has held up very well as of now imo. My question is, where did all those jedi come from? How did they land on the planet without anyone seeing them unlike Obi Wan? How did they even enter the arena without being seen? Why did they bring all those Jedi just to save three people, but not to go help those Naboo people and fight Darth Maul, or to save Palpatine, or to fight Grievous. Just another flaw in the prequel trilogy ig And if Anakin and Padme could contact the Jedi Temple in II on Tatooine no problem, how comes qui gon and them couldn't do it in I with the same exact fucking ship on the same exact planet, and just contact the Jedi to come pick them up?
teamster 08.30.16	All I know is the Rogue One trailer shown during the Olympics was badass.
AmericnZero02 08.30.16	I haven't seen Rebels yet; I need to find somewhere that shows it starting with episode 1. I loved the Clone Wars though. I'm sure I'll enjoy all the spinoffs, but yeah Disney is really milking it for all its worth. I'll enjoy having more star wars material to digest, but I don't want the world to get sick of SW and then it becomes a joke. They're currently building Star Wars Land within Disneyland. I mean
Polyethylene 08.30.16	"So your main argument as to why the prequels were shit is because they used modern technology... we can throw Meshuggah, Darkthrone and other bans who use drum simulators for using technology" Wow, straw man much. I fucking love LOTR, and it has aged well because it used a mixture of practical effects and CGI. The Star Wars prequels, like the Hobbit films, are green screen nightmares that have and will continue to age poorly. There's SO much wrong with those movies beyond their overuse of CGI, but we'll leave that there. And I would never fault a musician for taking advantage of available technology. Most of my favourite music is heavily processed, some of it entirely made on a computer. Sure, certain sounds and timbres will age like CGI ages, but that can have a certain aesthetic charm to it. The SW prequels just look hideous now. "Exactly why its shit" For the love of god, don't make the argument that quality is inversely proportional to critical acclaim. In the spheres of art criticism, particularly film and music, that is among the least defensible stances you can possibly take. Please, for your sake, don't go down that road. "Again it doesnt only have to span in that 1 time period though. The SWU is so unlimited there is so much space to create new blockbuster films in different time periods." You think, after the train wreck of the prequels, that people would go see a Star Wars film featuring none of their favourite characters, set thousands of years in the past? The diehard fans of the SWU might, nobody else. TFA being such a homage to the original trilogy was borderline necessary, to win back disappointed fans who felt the SW magic had been lost, and to tie this new trilogy to the original films. Otherwise, with completely unrelated content and a new director, how could you possibly market it as a Star Wars film? That would be like another director making a Middle Earth film set on another continent in an earlier age, and expecting people to associate it with LOTR. The audience wouldn't be wrong in wanting to return to an old and magical place. "Because it is up to the reader to bestow a book the respect it deserves. And if you get into a book already thinking its a bullshit then its gonna be soulless bullshit." Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Of course there is a mixture of reader goodwill required for you to enjoy something, but you can't do all the work. I wouldn't approach any book with the outright desire to hate it, unless it was Mein Kampf or something.
zaruyache 08.30.16	I would love to see Revan made canon again. Anti-hero dark jedi Kotor film yes pls.
Polyethylene 08.30.16	"The Skywalker story was TOLD in eps 1-6 we had the chosen one we had the redemption we had the happy ending, that's it. There shouldn't have been anymore Skywalker related movies, because the new skywalker story will be shoehorned into the old one and it will ruin everything." Despite the unanswered questions in the Skywalker story, like where the fuck did Anakin come from? And what would become of Luke and the Jedi, after ROTJ? Also... I really don't see how the First Order vs original characters and a new generation is any more shoehorned or superfluous than a new film being like "oh there's this dude Thrawn you've never heard of, he's gonna make the Empire great again, please give a shit about this storyline that could easily not have existed." Just because there are books based on him, doesn't automatically make him and his associated storylines an integral part of the Star Wars story that desperately needs to be told.
Polyethylene 08.30.16	The criticism that the Skywalker story should have had a line drawn under it and been declared finished could just as easily apply to any other SWU events post-ROTJ. I know you'll say that there are stories set earlier that should be told. Again, for a KOTOR or other prequel film to even fucking get made, there needed to be a rejuvenation in the franchise, something fresh and new but also deeply true to the originals. That is literally what TFA was.
zaruyache 08.30.16	he has blue skin tho clearly he's important
Valkoor952 08.30.16	Yeah TFA was that, except the fresh and new part.
Valkoor952 08.30.16	"storylines an integral part of the Star Wars story that desperately needs to be told." I never said it desperately needed to be told, I said that it makes for a MUCH better story than the TFA one. I'm down with anything that is better than that tbh not just Thrawn. "Anti-hero Jedi Kotor film yes pls" I wish.
ZippaThaRippa 08.30.16	I know this was like days ago but: I don't think you have to be a Jedi/Sith to wield a lightsaber. General Grievous was a famous duelist who had recorded numerous Jedi kills and he wasn't even force sensitive. He was just an extremely skilled swordsman. Also, it seems like force abilities take a ton of concentration. It's not something you can just always do in the middle of a fight. Yoda had to break off from fighting Count Dooku in order to save Obi-Wan and Anakin from being crushed by that pillar. Kylo was obviously distracted by his serious wounds. Even heavily wounded, out of focus and unable to draw on his strength, Finn was no match for him. And he had a fist sized hole in his stomach from Chewie's bowcaster.
zaruyache 08.30.16	and it's canon that he was emotionally frazzled after killing youknowwho, so his head really wasn't in the game in the first place. And then you add in that he never expected Rey to actually put up a fight, so her suddenly finding confidence in her fighting abilities def threw him off, too. Add that all together and it's no wonder some random chick beat him.
Rik VII 08.30.16	I think it kinda makes sense that Rey fought as bad as he did, but it was disappointing and anticlimatical nontheless.
Valkoor952 08.30.16	Yes whcih brings me to the thought, so earlier in the movie Chewie's blaster shot a stormtrooper and he went flying in the air and landed god knows where, but when Chewie shoots Kylo he just stands still ? So magically the blaster got nerfed or ? And even if Kylo is a jedi that doesn't mean his body is shielded from blasters so don't try that. Also a little nitpick, but in the many many years Han and Chewie knew each other, Han NEVER used Chewie's bowcaster ? Really ? That just seems unbelievable.
zaruyache 08.30.16	isn't that when like Han uses the bowcaster and takes out a bunch of troopers at the same time, bc he hit a thing that exploded and sent them flying? Prob misremembering tho.
Valkoor952 08.30.16	No, he hit a stormtrooper directly in his body and he went up flying. In your scenario it's understandable but it wasn't like that.
zaruyache 08.30.16	Clearly Han just rolled a crit on that kid
Valkoor952 08.30.16	lol that's probably it
Polyethylene 08.30.16	Han never using Chewie's bowcaster before was hard to believe, yeah. I don't remember the bit where he shot a stormtrooper and they went flying, was it to do with proximity?
Valkoor952 08.30.16	I mean I don't remember perfectly cause last time I saw it it was in theaters but I think the proximity was maybe a little closer than the Kylo shot but it was still a fair distance. Don't remember for sure though.