claygurnz
11.13.16 | What's good sputnik |
Thalassic
11.13.16 | What is metal, what isn't metal? This is an age old argument everybody's got his own opinion on and it'll be nearly impossible to reach any sort of consensus on this issue.
To 95% of the population (who aren't into metal), any kind of distorted, brooding, less popular radio-oriented heavy rock music will be describable as "metal". To me, it's a pointless discussion, so my "metal" collection contains albums by Black Sabbath, Immolation, Darkthrone, Saint Vitus, Voivod, Neurosis (among many others)...but at the same time it also contains albums by Alice in Chains, Tool, Kyuss, Deftones, Converge, Dillinger, Botch, Rosetta, Faith No More, Slipknot, Soad, Mudvayne or Korn (despite those bands probably not being strictly "metal"). Am I being wrong? Probably. Do I care? Not really. |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | undoubtedly. The dichotomy between metal and rock can be more pronounced than between many other genres which are considered distinct from each other. |
altertide0
11.13.16 | Yes |
Keyblade
11.13.16 | it's a subgenre |
AsleepInTheBack
11.13.16 | rock and metal are such broad genre tags anyway; using them to describe a band doesnt really tell you all that much without going into subgenres imo, so the debate seems pointless. |
TheGreatQ
11.13.16 | I know someone who thinks metal is a subgenre of blues and if there aren't clear blues elements it's rock or pop. Those are the only genres that exist in his mind: Rock, Pop, and Blues. |
ZippaThaRippa
11.13.16 | Metal isn't even music |
Astral Abortis
11.13.16 | The least important question in the history of mankind has just been asked here, folks. |
bakkermaarten007
11.13.16 | It depends. Are you your own person? |
altertide0
11.13.16 | If metal's evolution stopped on the likes of Black Sabbath and Metallica, bands that were not too far from hard rock and hardcore punk, respectively, it would definitely make sense to consider metal just a subgenre of rock music. But then came death and black and grind etc and the more recent they are the more detached they seem from the rock music as we came to know it. Sure, these are the same instruments as in rock music, but they are used in a totally different way, the philosophy of composing is significantly different, and that's what matters the most imo. |
worthlessscab
11.13.16 | it's still part of rock music |
altertide0
11.13.16 | As others point out, it's ultimately just a philosophical (meaning: with no tru answer) question though. When did man and the pre-man become separate beings, when does man's life begin, are viruses alive, etc? |
altertide0
11.13.16 | @worthless is rock music still a part of blues music? |
L4titudes
11.13.16 | Rock is influenced by early rhythm and blues whereas Metal is more Classically influenced? I think? |
InFlamesWeThrash666
11.13.16 | Metal has its own sub-genres so i guess it's a genre. Who cares anyway,just riff |
NeroCorleone80
11.13.16 | I think it has enough styles of its own to be considered its own genre. |
Artuma
11.13.16 | metal shouldn't exist at all, that's all that matters |
worthlessscab
11.13.16 | @altertide0 There's a way more distinct feel and approach. The way I see it if you try to reduce it as much as possible most music can fall under a few encompassing genres like Classical, Folk, Blues, Jazz, Electronic and the different cultural music around the world. Baroque and Expressionism for example, vastly different but you can still easily place them under what we think of as classical (in popular culture). I'm not that versed to go into detail examining it but I can hear it. |
birds
11.13.16 | yes and the genre is called bath/grotesque-core!!! |
Voltimand
11.13.16 | Grotesquecore m/ |
TVC15
11.13.16 | I'd say metal is its own genre although it can get rather tricky considering the more extreme metal genres are derivatives of punk (thrash, black metal, grind, etc) |
Voltimand
11.13.16 | I think metal is an adjacent genre of rock, rather than sub, if that makes sense?
There should be a family tree of all music with the different subgenres branching out. |
Funeralopolis
11.13.16 | metal is a genre yea |
ArsMoriendi
11.13.16 | As long as the metal has a guitar and drums, I'm pretty sure it's a subgenre of a rock. |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | i think most metal falls under rock, but i do think there are enough exceptions that you can't say that all metal is rock. |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | is metal that stupid genre with the satanic screaming and the band just making as much noise as they possibly can? |
AlexKzillion
11.13.16 | If Punk is its own genre then Metal certainly is. |
ArsMoriendi
11.13.16 | Punk is certainly not its own genre
A lot of it has more in common with rock n roll than plenty of other rock sub genres
|
porcupinetheater
11.13.16 | Every genre is an evolution of a different genre, metal differentiates itself from its parental genre to be considered its own thing, just like blues did from jazz and rock did from blues |
TVC15
11.13.16 | Punk is absolutely its own genre, you certainly can't say Dead Kennedys, Joy Division, Christian Death sound like traditional rock n roll now can you. I mean you can make an argument for regular punk sounding like rock but then you're not taking into account its other "subgenres" especially the ones on the extreme end of it (I personally classify grindcore as a subgenre of punk but that's also another controversial argument) |
SitruK6
11.13.16 | "rock and metal are such broad genre tags anyway; using them to describe a band doesnt really tell you all that much without going into subgenres imo, so the debate seems pointless. "
i'll have to agree with this, you just can't describe a band by using "metal" and "rock" as a description.
On a side note, who gives a fuk m8!? |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | "As long as the metal has a guitar and drums, I'm pretty sure it's a subgenre of a rock."
is katy perry a rock artist now? |
AlexKzillion
11.13.16 | "As long as the metal has a guitar and drums, I'm pretty sure it's a subgenre of a rock."
is kendrick lamar a rock artist now? |
TVC15
11.13.16 | "As long as the metal has a guitar and drums, I'm pretty sure it's a subgenre of a rock."
Listen to this and tell me with a straight face this is rock
https://youtu.be/9a-adqbp1tA |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | ^TVC, that's definitely rock music. |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | TVC there are so many songs you could've picked that are more disparate to rock than that one tbh |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | agreed, just because you have some rambling bullshit for vocals doesn't negate the instruments that are unequivocally rock, and rather generic rock too |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | something like this for bm would've been a better choice imo. of course theres' still rock elements to be found but not so blatant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMKV0-sy7c0 |
ZippaThaRippa
11.13.16 | Lmao Silencer, that's a really fringe choice. Definitely on the cutting edge of avant garde. |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | not even music, just noise [5.356.346.278.378] |
Zig
11.13.16 | Metal and Rock are both sub-genres of Jazz and Blues. |
ZippaThaRippa
11.13.16 | No |
AlexKzillion
11.13.16 | Classical and Post Metal are both sub-genres of Drill and Pop Punk |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | literally anything that uses electric instruments is electronic btw |
AlexKzillion
11.13.16 | Including any genre that uses an electric guitar or even a microphone |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | it is on sputnik |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | what's that, you make synthpop? u is pop+electronic on hur ;) |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | Genres should be called Archs and sub-genres should be the new genre. Metal is an arch. |
Zig
11.13.16 | and Classical and World music are the only two genres...
Is categorizing music really that important? |
AlexKzillion
11.13.16 | yes
And World Music is like the biggest umbrella term to ever exist tbh |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | if you want to be as broad as possible, you might be able to divide all music into 4 categories: classical, folk, pop, and experimental |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | cyg got it right |
ArsMoriendi
11.13.16 | "if you want to be as broad as possible, you might be able to divide all music into 4 categories: classical, folk, pop, and experimental"
Technically couldn't you combine folk and pop together?
|
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | no |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | "if you want to be as broad as possible, you might be able to divide all music into 4 categories: classical, folk, pop, and experimental"
this doesn't seem like it would help, only create more argument, and it doesn't really make sense just saying it should be those 4 without going into detail. |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | well whats your problem with those four. i think everything could be explained with them |
AlexKzillion
11.13.16 | "if you want to be as broad as possible, you might be able to divide all music into 4 categories: classical, folk, pop, and experimental"
Not a fan at all of this idea to just divide every genre of music into an x amount of umbrella terms. The more detail the better imo. |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | "if you want to be as broad as possible, you might be able to divide all music into 4 categories: classical, folk, pop, and experimental"
I suppose so but thats' oversimplifying them to the point of being near useless |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | You can argue folk could fit inside classical and pop could fit inside folk so this just doesn't work out. |
ArsMoriendi
11.13.16 | Technically all music can be put into 1 category: music.
Y'know if we're being sticklers |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | wait let me try this
music
!!!
it works!!!! |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | yeah i'm happy with that |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | crazy how that works
is this science? |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | nah this ain't science, we're actually facing the facts bro, music and God are one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | sooooo
music is a religion? |
InFlamesWeThrash666
11.13.16 | Religion =/= God |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | soooo
god is dead? |
facupm
11.13.16 | limits are diffuse
|
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | music and god are a vibration of will |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | im a vibration of unwill |
Zig
11.13.16 | God's Not Dead.
Join the movement. |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | which will are you referring to storm? |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | im the antithesis of music |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | flug are you Bar さちこ |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | im antisound son, far more than さちこ |
Brabiz
11.13.16 | I think some metal is just too harsh and heavy to be comparable to Rock. I think i'd have a difficult time comparing Cattle Decap with The Rolling Stones |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | some metal is too harsh and heavy to be comparable to music agreed |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | some genres aren't meant to be caged |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | some balls arent meant to be caged* |
DeadGuy
11.13.16 | every genre is just a subgenre of music and it all just keeps branching down further and further into more and more subgenres
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/499/promoguy.JPG |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | mind blown |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | guys, i never said you couldn't be in more than one of those 4 categories. i'm just sayin' |
Jots
11.13.16 | "if you want to be as broad as possible, you might be able to divide all music into 4 categories: classical, folk, pop, and experimental" - and jazz tbf
|
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | jazz could be considered a mixture of classical and experimental tbh |
Jots
11.13.16 | no it couldn't. just because a lot of jazz is old doesn't make it classical, and plenty of jazz isn't experimental at all so |
worthlessscab
11.13.16 | and world music fm |
ZippaThaRippa
11.13.16 | it could be considered whatever you set your mind to |
Jots
11.13.16 | you could be wrong about a lot of things if you set your mind to it i guess |
Cygnatti
11.13.16 | one of my history book called jazz american folk music in that it's a uniquely american creation. called it something like america's greatest contribution to music.
it's stretching a lot, sure, but i always appreciated the insight. |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | this debate is getting dumb lol |
Krvst
11.13.16 | Metal is a genre, its just comprised of sub genres mostly. To file it all under a sub genre of rock is really stupid |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | your mom was a sub genre of rock |
Titan
11.13.16 | lol |
climactic
11.13.16 | "jazz could be considered a mixture of classical and experimental tbh"
lol wut |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | bluegrass could be considered an antecedent to pornogrind tbqh |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | crust wouldn't be around if it weren't for bluegrass |
altertide0
11.13.16 | "jazz could be considered a mixture of classical and experimental tbh"
Lol that's gold |
Flugmorph
11.13.16 | ye i know i have that spark |
Mystletainn
11.13.16 | I consider it separate to rock music even if it has roots in rock, the way it has evolved and all the sub genres that branched out because of it, it now barly resembles rock music.
Tldr: rock sux |
Emim
11.13.16 | It's all just vibrations in the universe man |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | Finally someone agrees with me |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | Earth Vibrations if we have to nail it all to one genre |
Emim
11.13.16 | I prefer deep space background noise |
theacademy
11.13.16 | i use metal and music synonymously as all non-metal is not actually music, but rather it is poorly-executed poetry with musical elements |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | Atreyu 5/5 |
BallsDeep
11.13.16 | white noise> black noise tbh |
zaruyache
11.13.16 | "Earth Vibrations if we have to nail it all to one genre"
man have you ever jammed radio waves from Saturn? |
Storm In A Teacup
11.13.16 | Saturn Vibrations man, different from Earth Vibrations
guess they would fall under Galaxy Vibrations |
zaruyache
11.13.16 | if they're only interpreted as music once they arrive at Earth, though, aren't they technically earth vibrations? |
Snowdog808
11.14.16 | I'd say it's a rock subgenre based on the rediculously large number of influences shared with hard rock, whether they are bluesier (Sabbath, Budgie, Buffalo) or more neo-classical (Cacophony, Symphony X). |
ScuroFantasma
11.14.16 | Yeah it's definitely it's own genre. If you consider it a subgenre of Rock, you should also consider rock a subgenre of blues. They're distinct enough to not fall under the same umbrella. |
Snowdog808
11.14.16 | Rock may be highly dependent on blues, but there's a host of extra influences distinctifying it such as jazz, country, western, and gospel, with some more jazzy (King Crimson, early Chicago) and some leaning closer to gospel (Little Richard.) |
Impervious
11.14.16 | "i use metal and music synonymously as all non-metal is not actually music, but rather it is poorly-executed poetry with musical elements"
lol
I feel metal can be categorized as rock, but rock cannot be categorized as metal. I describe my music preference as "metal" because it's easy to understand I like rock music but a heavier brand of it. I use it as a genre. |
SmileNerd
11.14.16 | 114 comments when only one was needed
"Yes." |
Snowdog808
11.14.16 | I can see why anyone would see metal as its own genre considering it almost rivals the likes of jazz in diversity. |
AlexKzillion
11.14.16 | Yeah like if Metal never left 1982 I could see this thinking but |
Shadowmire
11.14.16 | metal isnt music agreed |
MeatSalad
11.14.16 | Subgenre of rock obviously, hence the name |
Keyblade
11.14.16 | "I think some metal is just too harsh and heavy to be comparable to Rock. I think i'd have a difficult time comparing Cattle Decap with The Rolling Stones"
i mean u can say the same about cattle decap and dio for example. are metal sub genres and sub sub sub genres their own genres too because they sound different than their parent sub genres...or even sister sub genres? |
AlexKzillion
11.14.16 | Too much inbreeding in metal. Remember what happened when Death Metal fucked his hot cousin Metalcore? |
Thibs
11.14.16 | Ya it's a genre |
mifzal
11.14.16 | Both Hard Rock and Metal use distorted guitar but In metal the distortion is also in the base and this is heard through out the song. In Hard rock it's only apparent whenever the guitar takes the front. Usually metal= Heavy riffing. thats just my analysis |
AlexKzillion
11.14.16 | Is Rock its own genre? |
worthlessscab
11.14.16 | no, It's part of western music |
StrikeOfTheBeast
11.14.16 | I feel Metal has branched out enough and diversified enough to be categorical as its own genre. It's not just heavier rock music imo. |
Storm In A Teacup
11.14.16 | So Chevelle is what |
Storm In A Teacup
11.14.16 | Other than a 3.8, people! |
SAPoodle
11.14.16 | I must say, I have a bit of a problem with people who lose their shit over 'stupid' subgenres. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are RIDICULOUS subgenres out there these days and they don't always accurately describe a band's sound. However, I would rather hear The Angelic Process described as 'ambient drone metal' than just 'rock'. At least I have a vague idea of what to expect when I listen to it. |
oltnabrick
11.14.16 | i lost my virginity to this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVOR6G7nElk |
Typhoon24
11.14.16 | still part of rock |
ScuroFantasma
11.14.16 | @storm alt metal as far as I know |
Spec
11.14.16 | god is dead |
Storm In A Teacup
11.14.16 | ommmmmmm |
zakalwe
11.14.16 | Has it got long hair? Does it wear tights? Has it got shit vox? Is it uncool as fuck?
It's metal. |
ramon.
11.14.16 | I feel like every person here knows what constitutes as metal, what skeets around the borders, and what doesn't. It's all just categorizing. Saying metal and rock are one in the same would be a pain in the ass because telling your mates you listen to rock and then spinning Demilich after they jam AC/DC would be an awkward transition. |
ScuroFantasma
11.14.16 | I reckon at the point where a genre stands on its own and has subsequent sub-genres of itself that are wide and diverse, it's a seperate thing. It sprang from rock, but it's no longer just 'heavier rock music' anymore. |
ScuroFantasma
11.14.16 | Yeah I know there's sub-sub genres, but those all tracks back to "metal" which imo is distinct from "rock" which has its own sub-genres like stoner rock, hard rock etc.
And sure metal originally evolved from rock, but rock stems from blues, blues from traditional folk etc. It's all semantics of course, but genres are simply used to generalise music styles that are distinct and I reckon metal is different enough as a whole to be a standalone genre. |
kascetcadettt
11.14.16 | gay discussion |
kascetcadettt
11.14.16 | hamburgers @ mcdonelzzz are so generic |
kascetcadettt
11.14.16 | like |
kascetcadettt
11.14.16 | do u put genericality (?) there ?? |
kascetcadettt
11.14.16 | hahahahahahaah |
kascetcadettt
11.14.16 | funny |
Keyblade
11.14.16 | "there such a thing as sub-sub-genres weeeniees
like fr
brutal death metal has sub-genres
but it's a sub-genre of death metal
trying to argue that metal is separate to rock is fucking stupid"
"like fr, this shit jus taxidermy
you have family, species, genus all that mf shit
don't make it an entity of it's own lol
it all stems from something
and for metal it stems from rock"
hard. idk why ppl are making this so complicated, the shit aint rocket science |
zakalwe
11.14.16 | Sub genres are a nonsense made up to label, sell, franchise and milk. |
Mystletainn
11.14.16 | Metal is what rock wishes it could be
Rock is like an old washed up smelly man
Then you add in that grandpa prog stuff and I boi, no words |
BallsDeep
11.14.16 | taxidermy haha |
ScuroFantasma
11.14.16 | "give me some distinct characteristics of metal that aren't just borrowed or bastardised forms of rock tropes..."
Well it's music so literally every technique is going to be a borrowed or bastardised form of the ones before it. It's about application. I'd counter with the same question about blues and rock, but I don't think it's a fair one. |
ramon.
11.14.16 | kinda tempted to pull anyone up who tries to pinpoint a specific sound by saying "nah that's rock mate" |
BallsDeep
11.14.16 | sub genres (and sub sub genres) allow for efficient search and discovery of new music that's congenial to your taste (or whatever you're looking for) so I'm not sure why anyone would be so averse to them. The more sub-genres the better imo even if that results in them being overused/used inappropriately |
Keyblade
11.14.16 | drone metal is a distinct genre from heavy metal because sun o))) sound so much different than black sabbath = the logic itt |
Impervious
11.14.16 | ] "there such a thing as sub-sub-genres weeeniees
like fr
brutal death metal has sub-genres
but it's a sub-genre of death metal
trying to argue that metal is separate to rock is fucking stupid"
"like fr, this shit jus taxidermy
you have family, species, genus all that mf shit
don't make it an entity of it's own lol
it all stems from something
and for metal it stems from rock"
hard. idk why ppl are making this so complicated, the shit aint ROCKet science |
SAPoodle
11.15.16 | Metal does spring from rock, it's true. However, it has reached a point where metal has so many subgenres itself that it is useless to categorize it under the 'rock' banner if you want to get any useful description out of the genre tag.
Let me try to explain it this way:
Music (category under which all music falls... duh)
...
Classical - Rock - Pop (broadest genre tags available)
...
At this point, rock branches out into punk, metal etc.
...
These are then broken down into even further subgenres i.e. hardcore punk, metalcore, progressive metal, death metal etc. etc.
...
These are then subgenred even further i.e. mathcore, progressive death metal, ambient cosmic extreme funeral drone doom metal (lol) and so on and so on
So basically yes, metal is derived from rock but it's useless to describe it as such because it's probably not gonna help anyone figure out what it sounds like |
AlexKzillion
11.15.16 | Hip Hop stemmed from Rock and Funk and Disco and shit like that too, so does that make hip hop just another rock sub genre??? |
TVC15
11.15.16 | ^forgot jazz and sould but yeah basically what you said.
Metal is an amalgamation of the extreme ends of music. Heavy metal can be best defined by early Judas Priest and Maiden and Black Album era Metallica. The most basic and straightforward metal genre, while cherry picking its roots with rocks, is clearly a departure from regular rock music. For chrissake you wouldn't say Run to the Hills by Iron Maiden and Exciter by Judas Priest sound like fuckin Something and Down by the River |
Keyblade
11.15.16 | and u wouldnt say nadja sounds like iron maiden so ur point falls flat |
SAPoodle
11.15.16 | Well exactly. It would be just as futile to describe Nadja and Maiden as metal (although arguably more descriptive than just 'rock') because metal is a broad umbrella term, just one level under the rock banner. However, most people who aren't familiar with metal aren't going to know the difference between 'atmospheric neocrust' and 'trancecore' so telling them something is metal gives them a general overview of their sound. I don't know a single person who hasn't heard of metal as a genre, therefore calling those bands 'rock' is unnecessary. |
SAPoodle
11.15.16 | @Keyblade just realised your comment wasn't in response to me but anyway. I think we're on the same page and I'm just making a point that isn't even relevant to this post. Metal derives from rock but whether that's relevant at all is kind of what I'm getting at. Every genre is a subgenre of something. |
evilford
11.15.16 | I would say yeah metal is its own genre, really weird to me that that's even a question. |
Keyblade
11.15.16 | yea i fully agree with u Poodle |
evilford
11.15.16 | it's so distinctly different from rock |
StrikeOfTheBeast
11.15.16 | "I would say yeah metal is its own genre, really weird to me that that's even a question."
This times a million |
50iL
11.15.16 | Metal is definitely its own genre |
StrikeOfTheBeast
11.15.16 | Not just its own genre but its own art.
mind = blown
And what's the matter with getting a hard dick from the perfect ejaculatory music? |
StrikeOfTheBeast
11.15.16 | Are you a deprived 19 year old rant case? |
StrikeOfTheBeast
11.15.16 | Still not convinced.
That marktiny shit was never cool or funny to begin with but keep on going if you wish. |
oltnabrick
11.15.16 | theres no such thing as sound |
evilford
11.15.16 | agreed brick |
BallsDeep
11.15.16 | rock is a severely bastardized form of metal |
StrikeOfTheBeast
11.15.16 | @sach I didn't come here to please some little runt whose got nothing better to do with his/her life than to act like some deputy on a goddam music site. Maybe you should just take a dick cake and choke on it as you swallow. |
StrikeOfTheBeast
11.15.16 | "rock is a severely bastardized form of metal"
whaaaaaaaaa? |
ScuroFantasma
11.15.16 | Everything is a subgenre of Monophonic chant okay discussion over |
ramon.
11.15.16 | "Everything" is a subgenre of existence |
BallsDeep
11.15.16 | named black noise |
ramon.
11.15.16 | or the contents of a pack of lays |
BallsDeep
11.15.16 | as long as it had a good tazo in it I was happy |
BallsDeep
11.15.16 | small bits and pieces and it's got nothing to do with black noise aka silence to the human ear |
AlexKzillion
11.15.16 | "Hip Hop stemmed from Rock and Funk and Disco and shit like that too, so does that make hip hop just another rock sub genre???" [2] |
DarkSideOfLucca
11.15.16 | If metal is still a part of rock then rock is the vaguest genre ever. Metal is vague enough on its own, do we really need to expand that shit out even farther? |
Flugmorph
11.15.16 | almost as if it would be called 'metal' instead of 'rock' |
AlexKzillion
11.15.16 | "metal is just a catch-all for "edgy rock""
Idk man Appetite for Destruction is way edgier then most metal but it's still considered rock. |