Intothepit: The Stigma of Suicide

Intothepit 07.22.17	Kind of horrible that I had to use 6 to fill out my list.
verdant 07.22.17	i don't think 'beautiful' is the right word to use, but your words are really well considered and this kind of honesty is, i think, unfathomably important to discussion. much love < 3
bgillesp 07.22.17	Nice important message. Glad you were fortunate enough to get help, even if you didn't seek it.
ZippaThaRippa 07.22.17	What's horrible about it? Per Ohlin was a deeply disturbed individual with severe depression related to a traumatic childhood incident.
Intothepit 07.22.17	Yeah, but everything that followed his suicide kind of diluted whatever message could have been sent.
Trundle 07.22.17	great list, pit
SCREAM! 07.22.17	A really obvious #6 would've been Nirvana but Mayhem >>> Anyway, really nice write-up that will hopefully help some people gain perspective on all of this
ianblxdsoe 07.22.17	good message, almost been baker acted myself a few times, at the point where i probably should have been, but at this state in my life i agree with essentially of these points. it's good to have discussions about these things
JWT155 07.22.17	Quality write up pit, glad to see you're still around.
JWT155 07.22.17	The media is what disgusts me the most, all of these news outlets probably shit on the band for years and years, some probably never even having a single positive thing to say, and then when the lead singer passes away all these publications are quick to pump out their obituaries and "5 times Chester blew us away" articles just to get clicks and monetize a terrible situation.
Spec 07.22.17	"In fact, most patients believe they are doing their families a favor by taking their life. Most of these people don't believe that they belong here, and if they do, it's only to suffer and deal with pain." This hard. You're obviously not in a normal state of mind when you're thinking about offing yourself.
hal1ax 07.22.17	well written piece man
BallsToTheWall 07.22.17	Damn, dude. Glad you're still around bud and glad I read this because of my own family problems catching up to me.
BlazinBlitzer 07.22.17	Touching words, man, and I'm glad you're still here to talk about this.
BlushfulHippocrene 07.22.17	Extremely well-written. Heaps of love.
elliootsmeuth 07.22.17	Well written [2] As someone who has dealt with suicidal thoughts in the past and extensive and intensive therapy, I really appreciate your thoughts on the whole matter. I agree with all that was said. Suicide is selfish from outside looking in, but from inside looking out, it feels like the most selfless thing you can do when you're that low. I'm glad you got the help you needed. Never seems to some in the most conventional ways, does it?
EphemeralEternity 07.22.17	great think piece and a powerful vignette, i'm glad you're still around to tell it. There seems to be quite a phenomena where individuals whom survive suicide or have something significant halt them while in the act are reinvigorated with a life-affirming passion. Unfortunately both my friends succeeded (also jumped in front of trains) - which (in light of this discussion) I wouldn't call utterly selfish but it certainly affects strangers whom needn't be discommoded by it. But yeah at the end of the day desperation =/= selfishness no matter the ramifications of it. Also i'm not one to condemn suicide under any circumstances and I think that sentiment is almost as ridiculous as encouraging it, but I do believe that most precipitants of suicide are rectifiable to a bearable degree and there's almost always an opportunity to derive pleasure from life in some shape or form (w/out depriving others of theirs). Of course these aren't the type of thoughts pervading the mind of someone on the brink :(
Deathconscious 07.22.17	its not just that some think theyre doing their loved ones a favor. sometimes you get down to that point and you dont have the capacity to take them into consideration anymore. sometimes the pain and feelings of hopelessness cloud the mind and overtake any thoughts of how its going to affect others.
Kimm 07.22.17	Thanks for sharing, this one hits close to home. Great to see that you're still around here, too!
Dedes 07.22.17	This is a really important message pit and i'm glad you wrote it. People are already memeing his death, thinking it's a joke. I don't think everyone understands the full impact of suicide. You can't really understand until, and god help you if you do, get there. It's a terrifying moment too-when you come to your senses and realize you almost tried offing yourself. People need to understand how serious depression and suicide is.
Wolfhorde 07.22.17	The unfortunate thing is that most attempts are snap decisions that could be prevented and the stigmatization of mental illness and the judgement that is being made upon these people - often by people who have not even the slightest grasp of what it is like to deal with mental illness - all the bullshit tropes that surround it, don't help. I've seen all of this first hand I was myself lucky enough to be saved by sheer dumb luck when I tried to off myself 10 years ago.
Dedes 07.22.17	Yeah people really don't understand it. People just use it as fodder for their sadboi meme humor and it's really quite annoying. Still, it's worth trying to get through to people and trying to spread the message. People need to know what they can do to help the mental state of others and they need to know what they can do for themselves as well.
Deathconscious 07.22.17	joking about it doesnt necessarily mean you dont get it though.
EphemeralEternity 07.22.17	yeah tbh I think most people understand the gravity of it and maybe even use levity to cope with the nature of it. It's more the inadequate resources provided for those with mental health issues (looking at texas) and the pervasive stigma which would cause many to remain reticent about their inner struggles.
Dedes 07.22.17	Yeah I mean that's most certainly true as well. I guess that personally I could never get around to joking about without feeling like i've done something wrong, but that's probably just me.
zakalwe 07.22.17	Why has the suicide rate increased at a time when we are more healthy, have more disposable income, are 'safer' and more 'independent' than ever before? Life's evolutionary survival of the fittest dudes.
Dedes 07.22.17	I.. don't think it's quite that simple. Or maybe it? I don't know. Suicide is a complex issue with a simple way around it, which isn't saying that it's easy.
Deathconscious 07.22.17	this just in: suicide is an evolutionary mechanism, according to a new study by zakalwe.
Dedes 07.22.17	Oh I read what he said the wrong way huh. Ok yeah Zak stop being a bitchy old wart.
zakalwe 07.22.17	It's from Howard Blooms The Lucifer Principle actually. Bloody impressive book.
Dedes 07.22.17	Sounds like Howard Blooms is a bloody impressive dumbass if he thinks suicide is an evolutionary trait.
zakalwe 07.22.17	Nah it's more about being part of a larger group organism that's bonded by the relationship of human behaviour and culture into a 'superorganism' some of it's nonsense but some of it seems to ring true tbh
Dedes 07.22.17	That...sounds interesting. Definitely worth checking into I suppose.
EphemeralEternity 07.22.17	well even presupposing it is, that doesn't mean it should just be accepted as such - look at how far humanity has progressed in other avenues. Obviously there will always be suicides but attempts to assuage mental suffering (and suicide) be it through medication/therapy/destigmatization should always be taken.
Deathconscious 07.22.17	"some of it's nonsense" I didnt even have to say it.
zakalwe 07.22.17	"attempts to assuage mental suffering (and suicide) be it through medication/therapy/destigmatization should always be taken" I agree but this also causes problems in how people attach themselves to serious psychological disorders because they 'believe' they have it because they've been diagnosed by a doctor who more often than not has issued a misdiagnosis. How many people say 'I'm depressed' when what they actually mean is 'I'm really unhappy at the moment"
Wolfhorde 07.22.17	"Why has the suicide rate increased at a time when we are more healthy, have more disposable income, are 'safer' and more 'independent' than ever before? Life's evolutionary survival of the fittest dudes." Jesus Christ you never stop spouting nonsense, do you? Do you even know what survival of the fittest actually means? Outside of some internet douchebaggery and pseudophilosophical shitheads scribbling their nonsense down and selling it to other idiots like redpillers, MRAs and their ilk? But to answer your question: Oh I don't know maybe because mostly people fucking died due to things like disease, war, poverty, famine, expulsion, getting eaten by animals or cannibals. Also, we actually don't have accurate statistics of suicide rates for that long so the initial proprosition of that argument is already lopsided. And no, correlational anthropological or (geo)historical data is not really a good indicator.
Wolfhorde 07.22.17	"I agree but this also causes problems in how people attach themselves to serious psychological disorders because they 'believe' they have it because they've been diagnosed by a doctor who more often than not has issued a misdiagnosis." U-huh. Where's your data to support this super original hypothesis of yours? And the explanation of the mechanism? "How many people say 'I'm depressed' when what they actually mean is 'I'm really unhappy at the moment" Which is what it can mean, depending on the context. But being depressed is also not the same thing as depression. What do they teach you people in school?
zakalwe 07.22.17	A 2009 meta-analysis of 50,000 patients published in The Lancet found that general practitioners only correctly identified depression in patients in 47.3 percent of cases, with many doctors diagnosing depression in patients who did not actually suffer from it
Wolfhorde 07.22.17	Inclusion criteria? GP as in fucking house doctors? Patients from where? Do other studies corroborate that? If this doesn't even apply to therapists and psychiatrists your point is moot. Not to mention that double-checking is standard procedure in that field.
Wolfhorde 07.22.17	Also: Misdiagnosis of depression does not mean a person may not suffer from something else. (cyclothymia, bipolar, borderline, forms of PTSD, some kind of anxiety disorder etc) And depression sure as shit ain't the only MI where people get suicidal.
zakalwe 07.22.17	I haven't really got a point mate, I'm just discussing it. Throwing stuff in there that I've read and found interesting. I make my own decisions in this life based on experience and if it's backed up by something than I'll usually go along with it until something else changes my mind and I have the experience to back that up.
worthlessscab 07.22.17	Make euthanasia legal on request!
AsleepInTheBack 07.22.17	Really good write up pit. Nuanced and poignant.
Wolfhorde 07.22.17	If you have no point, you have nothing to discuss. Unless you're just trying to be an edgy dipshit here which I'm just gonna go ahead and assume you're not. Your argument is flawed and your logic further reinforces the already existing stigmatization of mentally ill people and the issue that they're not being taken seriously. Also, if all you have is second hand experience I'm sorry to tell you but it means exactly jacksquat since I doubt you're a mental health professional or have a PHD in clinical psychology.
zakalwe 07.22.17	Well I seriously thought about killing myself in 2002 if that helps.
Dedes 07.22.17	It's seriously odd that you can dismiss suicide as "survival of the fittest" considering as at a time you were suicidal.
guitarded_chuck 07.22.17	"I doubt you're a mental health professional or have a PHD in clinical psychology." do you
guitarded_chuck 07.22.17	and yeah survival of the fittest aka natural selection is a universal law of life and all people who commit suicide are unfit for the propagation of their genetics they are unhealthy to the point of willingly severing their family tree
dctarga 07.22.17	So, I was abused when I was 7-8 (non-intimidate family member), and my dad committed suicide when I was 10, so I feel like I have a some what informed opinion, albeit a bit too emotionally driven maybe. That out of the way, I think it's extremely selfish. I don't really understand the "I can't live like this so I have to end it". Sure, I've felt like "man I can't do this anymore", but the fact is we made this bed and we have to lay in it. Even if it's terrible, you just can't quit like that. Shit will eventually change, it actually can. I don't really feel any sympathy for suicide, but I'm not of the mind that if you commit suicide you didn't deserve to be here in the first place, that's not true whatsoever. I just think it's dumb. Although I do hope they've found their peace. Again, I may be a bit too emotionally charged with it because I didn't really make a point or compelling perspective, but honestly just get over your damn self. I did. I may not like me right now, but other people have dealt with way worse than I have and they're still alive and kickin'. Idk.....R.I.P. Chester (Also I'm not trying to say "oh this happened to me so I know what I'm talking about! Cause that's not true, more so just explaining my personal experience and where I'm coming from)
zakalwe 07.22.17	Thank you targa. Revealing yourself on here is sometimes a bit gruelling but it has to be done on occasion and I totally agree with what you say.
Cygnatti 07.22.17	great list, and completely agreed. very relatable~
dctarga 07.22.17	Thank you, sir
Deathconscious 07.22.17	"Shit will eventually change" Dont be naive. As i said in the thread about Chester, not everyone gets better.
Spec 07.22.17	it's annoying how when it comes to survival of the fittest, the "fittest" have like an 80 IQ and are incapable of showing sympathy towards anybody
clavier 07.22.17	It truly pains me that some people have decided to take such an unsympathetic stance towards those suffering for reasons that may be entirely beyond their control. To put suicide into a simple "survival of the fittest" calculus is degrading and a dangerously reductionist path of thinking. Why must this be about evolution and the gene pool? Doing so reduces individuals to their ability to propagate their genes, and I think most of us can agree that we value many other things. Thank you for the list, very well-written and brings forth an important perspective.
dctarga 07.22.17	1 month, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. It doesn't matter when it happens, but it will. Granted, yes it is a bit of a naive statement being that everyone has different depths of emotions and how they deal with them...but idk you can't tell me things are just always going to be the way they are now and they might as well just end it. Nah man lol. And I'm not trying to twist your words, not saying that's what your greater point is/was but that's how I interpret that line of thinking that "not everyone gets better"
EphemeralEternity 07.22.17	we've progressed past survival of the fittest mentality, darwinism is basically a meme when applied to society today. While it may theoretically result in a 'superior' gene pool of people less predisposed to psychopathology it's also inhumane and misguided to think that anyone who has suicidal ideation is not fit to procreate and every avenue/resource should still be exhausted trying to prevent it. also i'm glad you were able to but cmon that 'just get over it' sentiment is almost laughable how quixotic it is. if only it were that easy.
dctarga 07.22.17	I mean, yeah its a bit shallow....but idk, I find it true. Once I realized that one human being is such a small blip on the scale of this universe it made it a lot easier for me to be ok with myself. But yes I do understand that not everyone can be as "eh, fuck it!" as me
Deathconscious 07.22.17	"It doesn't matter when it happens, but it will." Oh ok, i wasnt aware that that was a law of nature. I wonder what universal mechanism ensures this.
dctarga 07.22.17	Law of nature? Nah, but human nature? Yeah I do believe that time can heal all. Again, a lot of my opinion is just straight emotion, I can't deny that. I'm not saying I'm right here
Deathconscious 07.22.17	Laws of nature and human nature are two different things...one is a constant, the other is a tendency. So that argument doesnt work on any level. Anyways, being that you have experience in this subject i would have expected you to be more realistic about it, but i guess not.
dctarga 07.22.17	Right, and my experience has given me a more jaded opinion than most I suppose, as opposed to a more open-minded approach. Agree to disagree my dude. You got me on laws of nature/human nature thing though, I guess my thought is that while it is a tendency it seems to be true in my dealings with family/friends (besides that one time, see above comments). But hey they could all be putting on face for all I know, so yeah, fair point.
worthlessscab 07.22.17	As long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist. No need to concern yourselves, lads.
dctarga 07.22.17	^^^^^^ Pretty much
MO 07.22.17	good to hear you're doing well pit m/
Dedes 07.22.17	I can see both perspectives. I mean the only way to drag yourself out of such an abyss is through sheer willpower, so in a sense, you kind of just have to get over it. It's simple but simple isn't easy. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't show sympathy towards suicidal people or drag them down, but you get the point.
Intothepit 07.22.17	I work with people who have suicidal ideations almost every day. Telling them to just press on, or "get over it," is probably the most ignorant way of handling it. You're telling someone to keep going despite the fact that they don't see any relief in the future. You're telling them to wait 5 years? That's basically a death sentence for them. You have to handle the situation with compassion. Empathize with the person. Try and have a clinical intervention where they get the help they need. Saying that a person will just eventually "get over it" is such a blind way of looking at it.
Dedes 07.22.17	Yeah man I get it, I think more so what I meant was in the end it's the sheer willpower of said person alone that will save them. Of course you don't say "just get over it", because that would be very ignorant and unsympathetic.
Demon of the Fall 07.22.17	Oh man, there is so much ignorance here, the whole survival of the fittest argument specifically was completely nonsensical... admittedly there were also some good points here as well. I agree that the stigma attached to suicide needs to be addressed & not vilified, I've been there & everyone who goes through it probably has different reasons (& not necessarily logical ones which are consciously thought out). It's not an inherently selfish act & as many things in life it's an incredibly complex & nuanced subject which requires a greater understanding, something which I admittedly don't have the answers for despite my experiences. Peace everyone.
dctarga 07.22.17	"You have to handle the situation with compassion. Empathize with the person. Try and have a clinical intervention where they get the help they need."< I agree with that 100%, in the moment you do everything you can for that person, but if all attempts fail I'm not going to sit there and feel bad or worry about it, that's pretty fucking cold yeah, but this is one instance where I am very close-minded when I'm usually open-minded about everything else. And also, the "get over it" thing is more so how I dealt with it, maybe I've never been to the emotional depths that others have (I feel as such, though) so yeah it's super subjective and simplified, agreed I think kingdedethefifth summed it up pretty well without sounding harsh...which is where I kind of fail, but that is the point I was going for
guitarded_chuck 07.22.17	"darwinism is basically a meme when applied to society toda" S C I E N C E B O Y S
zakalwe 07.22.17	Who wants science when you have feelings that can be hurt?
Deathconscious 07.22.17	sciencebois
Egarran 07.22.17	"WHO reports that in the last 45 years suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide." That isn't evolution.
Demon of the Fall 07.22.17	Some of you guys are so heartless, I understand the need for discussing the medical perspective but the whole selfish/survival of the fittest/natural selection shit is really annoying. I'm neurologically predisposed to being unsympathetic & your attitude is still completely abhorrent. Maybe it helps that I've experienced such feelings in the past, but still...
guitarded_chuck 07.22.17	maybe natural laws don't care about your feelings
zakalwe 07.22.17	Increasing population, ironically life finds a way.
Intothepit 07.22.17	How does killing one's self have anything to do with natural laws? That makes absolutely no sense, and is an absolute insult to life and free will.
dctarga 07.22.17	Yeah I definitely don't agree with the "natural selection" association, doesn't quite make sense to me. But I don't put "selfish" and "natural selection" in the same relm in regards to this.
Egarran 07.22.17	Man with 6 kids kills himself. "It's nature reacting to overpopulation." You're in deep water Zak.
zakalwe 07.22.17	Give us a sec dudes I'll have to dig the book out and refer to the specific chapter. Hold on.
dctarga 07.22.17	I used to tell my ex that all time, "(playfully) No babe, it's in the book, if you don't believe me we can go down to the library and I'll get the book and show you!" She never called me on cause she knew my ass would take her down to the library and grab some random book and play it out for as long as possible.....good times :)
Dedes 07.22.17	"Give us a sec dudes I'll have to dig the book out and refer to the specific chapter. Hold on." Will your book magically prove how people kill themselves to fix overpopulation? zak, whatever point you had, if you ever had one, is completely falling apart (and it wasn't very stable in the first place). My girlfriends dad had a brother who suffered from Schizophrenia. He heard voices that told him to do horrendous things. This was during a time where mental disorders like this were not quite as understood or treatable as they are today. He was suffering, and he eventually shot himself in the head. Tell me, is that him feeding into the goal of fixing overpopulation? Why is he hardwired to fix overpopulation and we are not? Exactly. He isn't. No one is. Suicide is not humanities answer to overpopulation.
zakalwe 07.22.17	Back in 1897 the seminal French sociologist Emile Durkheim compiled a set of statistics that demonstrated the rise of self inflicted deaths after the market crashes of 1873 and 1882 and coined the term 'altruistic suicide' He seemed to sense that beneath the surface the suicide was destroying himself to rid the wider social group of a burden. Marcel Mauss was even more specific noting "violent negation of the instinct for self preservation by the social instinct" If our actions are geared to increasing the odds of our genes making it it to the next generation what is the reason for suicides existence? We are part of a larger organism and find ourselves occasionally expendable in its interests. Within a few hundred thousand generations the creatures with the anatomical or mental advantages have outbred their rivals. California State Universitys David J.Depew assert that "A group can be considered as an individual and that the population level remains primary" Much of the enthusiasm over the theory of kin selection comes from W.D Hamiltons demonstration of how genetic relatedness might account for hive Hymenoptera.
Dedes 07.22.17	Except you cannot still strip down suicide into a way to enhance our own genes unknowingly, even if by some fuckery it's true. Would you ever tell someone that's suicidal "it's too better the gene pool?'
zakalwe 07.22.17	Superorganism dude.
Dedes 07.22.17	We are not the same conscience. We are not a hive mind. We are individual people with different though processes and you seem to not realize that.
zakalwe 07.22.17	Tell that to the people who lived under Stalin or the Khmer Rouge.
Intothepit 07.22.17	Can we get back on the subject, please? This is not the way I intended this to go (Then again, this is Sputnik. I don't know what I was thinking).
Egarran 07.22.17	That is a very simplified theory, but hey 19th century science. "Much of the enthusiasm over the theory of kin selection comes from W.D Hamiltons demonstration of how genetic relatedness might account for hive Hymenoptera." I would like to know more.
Demon of the Fall 07.22.17	zakalwe isn't being serious, he can't be, no-one is that much of a prick
zakalwe 07.22.17	I'm pretty sure that was debunked by different species of tropical wasps or something but certain elements remain true. I can't quite remember as I've put the book away, have gone back to reading Dune and am spinning Amplifers latest :D
Dedes 07.22.17	Sorry pit man, really diverged from the main subject I guess. RIP Chester, it's unfortunate he saw no other ways to avoid his end.
Metalrain 07.22.17	There is a point where proving anything doesn't really matter. You are really comming off as an asshole, even though your arguments aren't that bad.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 07.22.17	so you're a shrink who pretty much solely bullies people on sput in your free time thats chill i mean im guilty of it too but im also not a professional psychologist dedicating my life to helping people with mental health issues
Deathconscious 07.22.17	Lol
Intothepit 07.22.17	I never said I was a shrink, but okay Pots.
Egarran 07.22.17	Aw man, we needed a better comeback there.
GhandhiLion 07.22.17	"While I still do believe that act of committing suicide to be selfish" Is it not selfish to want a suffering human to carry on suffering just for the benefit of yourself and others? You deny a person of their self determination.
Trundle 07.22.17	"Is it not selfish to want a suffering human to carry on suffering just for the benefit of yourself and others?" this, hard
dctarga 07.22.17	Deleted, sorry too emotionally charged of a comment, if there was a straight up delete button you wouldn't be reading this explanation, my bad folks!
Trebor. 07.22.17	"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling." - Dave Wallace RIP Chester
CaliggyJack 07.22.17	The reality is the US Government and other governments around the world will never legalize suicide, nor will they let you willingly do it in any capacity. This is simply because one dead person is one less worker. The US Government would rather drug you up with anti-depressants and then send you on your way to your work to continue. If you die, that's less work for them, less goods produced, less entertainment made. People need to realize they are not special in the eyes of their governments. They are robots to be ordered around at leisure. It's like a machine, the machine has a harder time operating when a cog decides to fall off and land on the floor. It's all just a big machine. They don't make suicide illegal because they care about you or your families, they do it because you're more of an inconvenience dead than alive.
Trebor. 07.22.17	Being in a psychiatric hospital surrounded by people who have attempted or thought about attempting suicide you learn one thing. Depression does not discriminate. There are suicidal 16-year-olds, there are suicidal 90-year-olds. There are depressed people with no family, there are depressed people with 6 kids. There are depressed doctors and there are depressed homeless people. When you are in so much mental anguish, after weeks, months, years, every day, all you begin to think about is how to make it stop. And of course you would want to make it stop. It's debilitating. Even treatment is exhausting - having doctors throw pill after pill at you, you gain weight, you can't sleep, you sleep too much, you still want to die. Some people respond to treatment, some people don't. Every time a person commits suicide it's a tragedy, and the person is always a victim. Blaming a victim because of their pain is awful. IDK be kinder to each other
Snake. 07.23.17	lol at the guy below me who thinks intotheshit is his main
DANcore 07.23.17	If this is an intotheshit alt account, then you're a massive fucking hypocrite
Lord(e)Po)))ts 07.23.17	@intothepit what are you then if u have a professional opinion on patients with mental illness? I'm not trying to be oppositional. Im just curious
Wolfhorde 07.23.17	@caliggy: While "suicide" is an originally criminological term it's actually not illegal in many countries and how could it be? You could only criminalize the attempt, which has been decriminalized in many countries for decades. Also, while there's something to the notion that a state has an interest in the continuance of its populace that logic is too simplistic to be accurate.
Wolfhorde 07.23.17	also fucking lol at this whole social darwinism bullshit pulled ITT (and yes the notions you put forth, no matter how much you try to make them "evolutionary" are in its essence social darwinism)
mifzal 07.23.17	this topic is way too deep to be discussed on an amateur form...you know to from a general consensus. But yeah most of the arguments do sound legit. I think it is selfish, it's something an individual WANTED to achieve, so suicide isn't a selfless act, martyrdom is. (some may still call both stupid). Now whether it's cowardly or not that's another sub topic.
Egarran 07.23.17	Anyone feel more suicidal after reading this thread? Maybe we should meet up somewhere and rid the earth of our inferior genes.
worthlessscab 07.23.17	To the ones arguing about just willing yourself out of it, depression is an illness. It reduces your motivation and depending on the severity it can be paralyzing, at which point even killing yourself is too taxing. And so like any illness a treatment is needed. To underline what a shitty illness it is, human motivation works pretty much on pleasure-pain basis, so at that state you're a dead stump.
guitarded_chuck 07.23.17	https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3881146/ some reading on the current theories around suicide for anyone actually interested in anything more than the useless postulating anecdotal emotion-filed discourse ITT
Winesburgohio 07.23.17	nvm [1]
worthlessscab 07.23.17	shame it doesn't take much intelligence to survive so we've evolved only some basics needed
guitarded_chuck 07.23.17	it's not an enforcement of the stigma, it's getting closer to the truth and root cause and therefore can be used to find ways to overcome the desire to kill oneself pretending that there is no evolved reason for the desire is ironically only going to cause more suicides in the long run because then you can't find true preventative measures so while you are all triggered as fuck right now and in complete denial of what I've said ITT just know that your ignorance is actually more detrimental than what I and current science proposes
Winesburgohio 07.23.17	[REDACTED FOR NOT BEING THE TIME OR PLACE]
guitarded_chuck 07.23.17	the science: not useful and also here I will insult you for posting research alright then, thanks for another useful contribution next
Winesburgohio 07.23.17	nvm[2] [sorry for using the f word] [please consider reappraising your opinions Chuck thanks]
Egarran 07.23.17	backs slowly away from thread
worthlessscab 07.23.17	FUCK OFFFF
DinosaurJones 07.24.17	Well, this thread was an adventure. It started off nice, but holy shit, you guys. You guys. What the actual fuck.
zakalwe 07.24.17	Let's be nice all the time and blind ourselves to opinion, conjecture, discussion research, theory and deafen ourselves to fact. That'll be nice.
Snake. 07.24.17	hey guys since we're all friends here now I really want to know... why does nobody like me and why is nothing I do good enough for anyone
Snake. 07.24.17	because if my feelings are valid and I'm worth living on then why the fuck are the same people saying that shit treating me like I don't even exist
Snake. 07.24.17	I'm so sick and tired of people posting memes on facebook about how they love all of their friends with all of their support even though I'm not even sure if they're my friend or not???? stop making people feel bad by saying worthless platitudes that you can't even back up
Deathconscious 07.24.17	Agreed
Snake. 07.24.17	so sick of hearing about positive reinforcement from people that couldn't even me a chance
guitarded_chuck 07.24.17	dude wut
Snake. 07.24.17	maybe i should just drop out of college and save myself the emotional exhaustion of getting triggered by people who ignore me now
Snake. 07.24.17	at this point that's all i'm going be focused on anyway because my mental health has degraded so much that every time i make a glance at someone i'm just gonna be compelled to gut myself
neekafat 07.24.17	Thank you so much for sharing man
worthlessscab 07.24.17	it's ok to die
TwigTW 07.25.17	Paraphrasing Morrissey . . . This thread has opened my eyes.
Torontonian 07.25.17	"Someone who has very real thoughts of doing so will never say anything about it in most cases" are you sure your a professional? cus suicide prevention literally tells you the exact opposite thing.
owen 07.25.17	SnakeDelilah please remember many people are blindly hypocritical and insensitive, but not everyone is like that. I hope you find people worth keeping in your life Wish I could say it gets better after college, but it won't sadly
Demon of the Fall 07.25.17	SnakeDelilah - If you have people to concentrate on outside of the digital world (hopefully you do, I realise some people don't) then I would strongly suggest leaving facebook & social media altogether. People only seem to use it these days to seek approval from their acquaintances & vaguely known 'associates' who they barely even know 'in real life'. It's so frustrating seeing people feeling the need to update facebook when they're out with 'real life' friends, they should be concentrating on that instead. Anyone who's important can be contacted by phone/email. Sorry, maybe a little off-topic but if it's making you unhappy then quitting could be a positive step forward. And my whole life changed for the better when I left education, so my experiences were different to owen's - the detachment from certain people definitely helped me & that's logistically easier after that period of your life has finished.
Pajolero 07.25.17	I'm all about personal choice. It's your life and you have every right to do whatever you want with it, as long as it doesn't endanger others. That said, suicide is just stupid. Think about everything that you will be depriving yourself of, all the things you won't get to experience. Sure, some if it could be bad, and some of it good, but there's no way to know for sure unless you actually give yourself a chance to live it and see. Life is long dawg.
Demon of the Fall 07.25.17	If people contemplating suicide could see these things they wouldn't be in this situation, it's not a logical thought process.
Deathconscious 07.25.17	"That said, suicide is just stupid. Think about everything that you will be depriving yourself of" Lol
worthlessscab 07.25.17	"I hate my life and can't continue living it." - But think of all the living you can do!
tigersbrokefree 07.25.17	Until the light at the end of the tunnel is just a freight train coming your way.
Pajolero 07.25.17	I mean you'll be dead soon enough anyway, why not live and see how it all plays out.
tigersbrokefree 07.25.17	Yeah what exactly am I depriving myself of? 30 years of working and worrying, if I'm lucky? It doesn't matter what I'd be missing, because it can never be worth it.
Deathconscious 07.25.17	Good point, u saved me i will no longer commit the suicide!
Demon of the Fall 07.25.17	Pajolero breathes new life into suicide debate, some say he's found the answer we've all been seeking...
worthlessscab 07.25.17	...life is the only thing worth living for.
Ikarus14 07.25.17	I suffer from clinical depression and anxiety. I had a particularly bad bout a month ago, and my longest bout lasted almost a year. This is probably one of the most well written and respectful ways to deliver a message on the topic of suicide and depression I've seen. You're clearly a very good person and kudos to you.
Hep Kat 07.26.17	Thread gave me a headache. Worse than Linkin Park ever did. Remember those commercials on Nick during the summer marathons back in the day? Lotta y'all shoulda paid 'em more mind. "Go outside"
Winesburgohio 07.26.17	what if ur an agoraphobe hep
artiswar 07.26.17	the cure for agoraphobia is sunlight didn't you know
Snake. 07.26.17	lms if you remember national play day
Lavair 09.15.17	Are you feeling alright?
Aerisavion 10.07.17	Thank you for writing this
tigersbrokefree 10.07.17	And no one should dictate when and how I die, especially while they're cavorting around in the fucked up society of their own creation.
Egarran 10.08.17	How unpatriotic.
Frippertronics 10.08.17	"And no one should dictate when and how I die, especially while they're cavorting around in the fucked up society of their own creation." quite the edgelord, are we now?
Grungil 09.14.21	Hope you doing fine now.