TheAntichrist
11.28.20 | how was your thanksgiving fam? also double bass or nah? |
GhandhiLion
11.28.20 | Hell yes. I love me some charlie haden. |
JohnnyoftheWell
11.28.20 | there's a bit on the new albumsong john zorn thing where the drums play as usual but trevor dunn does doublepedal on bass and like he's playing bass notes but it's the same fucking thing because he's playing them so fast and it sounds very great so i vote nah |
wildinferno2010
11.28.20 | Well it's not a "necessity." I thought you couldn't have death metal without db but then I heard Faceless Burial. I love it when metal drummers use a single pedal
Still gonna vote yes though |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | Nah, not necessary at all. A lot of metal drummers overdo it imo. People like Ben Koller, Chris Maggio, Tyler Colburn, Zach Hill, Dave Witte, etc prove it's possible to be more creative without it even. Plenty of people can also do one foot blast beats, albeit not quite as fast. But obviously the are some double bass parts & players I'll always love. My preference is usually a small kit (4 piece) with one bass pedal though. |
brainmelter
11.28.20 | nah a real drummer can blast with 1 bass pedal |
wildinferno2010
11.28.20 | Yeah, but you can't play bleed with one pedal tho |
DavidYowi
11.28.20 | Nah. Single bass pedals in metal are rad because it requires the drummer to be more creative with their playing than just filling up space with the double pedal. |
Deathconscious
11.28.20 | Depends on the music. |
brainmelter
11.28.20 | @wildinferno tru, but why would you ever want to play that |
TheAntichrist
11.28.20 | hard to picture lamb of god without double bass either tbh |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | You can compensate for lack of double kick by working up your heel toe/slide technique and developing good doubles, triples, and quads, then working in the floor tom to hit in the spaces that you can't hit with just your foot. Obsessed with the way that shit sounds. lol
Also, Lamb of God's drums have always been overrated af. Like Chris Adler is a great drummer, but he never did anything to blow my mind. |
StarlessCore
11.28.20 | really depends on the style |
TheAntichrist
11.28.20 | john bonham did that on a couple led zeppelin songs which sounded nice. chris adler certainly isn't among the best drummers out there, but he was the catalyst for their tight grooves that even their new drummer can't quite duplicate |
wildinferno2010
11.28.20 | @brainmelter why wouldn't you? Must feel powerful af |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | I'd feel more powerful playing this shit one footed tbh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btjYXua-06I |
wildinferno2010
11.28.20 | "Nah. Single bass pedals in metal are rad because it requires the drummer to be more creative with their playing than just filling up space with the double pedal."
I suppose, but having the extra pedal can also give more options creatively. More tools and all that. Obvs all depends on the drummer and style of music, but tbh I eyeroll whenever I see someone complaining about how the second pedal is a" crutch, " or whatever |
wildinferno2010
11.28.20 | @Million single footed blasts are best, agreed |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | It was like a switch that flipped ever since I first starting watching Zach Hill, but I feel like the ultimate frontier of drumming is being creative and busy with single kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYgzQ6TkaI0&feature=emb_title < Always proves to me that you never NEED double kick. |
wildinferno2010
11.28.20 | I agree you don't NEED a double kick, but you also don't really NEED toms. All you probably really need is a kick, snare and hats.
Anyway, I feel like you couldn't get something like this to feel right with one pedal
https://youtu.be/-eaIvh6ELVg |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | Lol mean even a snare and kick are debatable depending on the music. You could play a loungey jazz gig on just cymbals, I imagine. I'm just saying it's possible to match the brutality and density that people use it for without the actual double kick.
"Anyway, I feel like you couldn't get something like this to feel right with one pedal"
Maybe you could, especially with certain sections, but you'd probably lose a lot of the essence of the whole composition for sure. Like I said, I prefer one pedal drumming but it's not like I'm shitting on double bass. Plenty of fantastic drummers like Nick Yacyshyn and Jamie St Merat use it liberally. A lot of my favorite music is inseparable from it. And Gene Hoglan is a goat, no matter how many pedals he uses. |
WatchItExplode
11.28.20 | I wrestle with this since I bought myself some drums during quarantine and had been getting progressively better. A lot of times im playing and wish I had a double for flash and longer machine gun bass, but when you groove fast tight single is incredible. |
WatchItExplode
11.28.20 | I love all sorts of extreme metal but a lot of times it seems like double just muddies up the entire thing and is heavy for the sake of heavy |
NeroCorleone
11.28.20 | Its not a necessity at all tbh. D-beats are my favorite drum pattern. |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | @watchitexplode: That and just tons of extreme shit is very playable without double. Maybe not Bleed but that song is really built around double kick. You could replicate the kick pattern between the foot and hands but it'd feel different and it'd definitely interfere with that smooth/simple half time groove you're doing on the cymbal and snare. Hellnation, Coke Bust, and Discordance Axis are some of my favorite fast AF single kick bands lol.
"D-beats are my favorite drum pattern." God what a fucking beat. I love hearing them in any kind of punk or metal. So catchy and groovy, but still pummeling. |
evilford
11.28.20 | Hell yes [2] |
ArsMoriendi
11.28.20 | Silly me, I thought this thread was gonna be about the stringed instrument, not double bass drum kicks
I'm totally not disappointed by the way... |
DominionMM1
11.28.20 | low end percussion for sure but that doesn’t necessarily mean double bass drums exclusively |
YoYoMancuso
11.28.20 | double bass is amazing when it's tasteful. tech death guys who play nonstop 16ths at 250 bpm for an entire song are super impressive, but from a songwriting perspective, just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD |
TheAntichrist
11.28.20 | yes |
WatchItExplode
11.28.20 | Well said |
Emim
11.28.20 | I appreciate both. The creativity that comes from limiting yourself to just one pedal is great, as is the scope of what you can play on a double. Double also allows you to lock into the guitar riffs a lot better sometimes, like imagine Meshuggah without a double pedal. Could be cool, but it wouldn't be Meshuggah. |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | "super impressive" More than half of the people doing that shit do so with triggers, so not even that impressive. I mean you still have to hit the drum so it's not CHEATING, but the acoustic sound of it without triggers would be more like wee baby taps of the bass drum cause the strokes typically lack power at those speeds. That's why I hate a lot of these super sterile modern mixes. They sound so clicky and punched in. When someone just mics and mixes an acoustic kit or does a tasteful blend of acoustic signal, supplemented by a sample, you can tell and it's 100% always better. Ulcerate have the good sense to use a great blend with a kick that actually sounds like a kick. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
11.28.20 | If you mean double kick then no because all the most talented drummers can do it with one pedal and make anyone with a double kick look like a clown
If you mean double bass as in stand up bass then yes because it is literally the best instrument and all music is better with it |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
11.28.20 | "Silly me, I thought this thread was gonna be about the stringed instrument, not double bass drum kicks
I'm totally not disappointed by the way..."
Lmao u a real one ars |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | "If you mean double kick then no because all the most talented drummers can do it with one pedal and make anyone with a double kick look like a clown" That's a bit of broad brush to paint with imo. A lot of drumming in the past 40 years has been built around double kick and some things just won't fly with one foot, even if you're Zach Hill. But it's absolute not necessary, and can often be overbearing/less creative. |
loveisamixtape
11.28.20 | db is annoying to me pretty much every time, i like when blood incantation does it tho |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
11.28.20 | Look, as someone who was a metal drummer for a decade and primarily known for my double kick skills I'm gonna say this:
Hitting shit hard fast and loud sounds impressive and all until you take that double kick away and tell them to try and stand their ground against a good jazz drummer |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
11.28.20 | Milliondead this entire thread: "no you can do it without a double kick"
Me once: "no you can do it without a double kick"
Milliondead: "ur wrong" |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | Stand up double bass is lit too. Ron Carter makes that mf SING. Also Joe Lester from Intronaut went to school for jazz bass and definitely uses one in bits of their first LP.
And Danny Walker is a great drummer that was in that group that happens to be super creative with his double pedal. Great rhythm section back then. Alex Rudinger is less of a shit heel but his ideas don't compare.
@Pots: I'm just saying some of the shit that you can play with a double kick, you can't play with just your one foot. No one can play 16ths at 230 bpm with a single kick. I guess you could divide the notes between the kick and floor tom but it's not quite the same. lol but a lot of metal drummers absolutely have the most boring fills. Just rlkk rlkk rlkk rlrlrlrl all over the place lol. |
loveisamixtape
11.28.20 | i just am not impressed by ~chops~ db is usually unnecessary and takes up too much space for me. tho as a method of practicing or something i think it's Cool, just not on record i guess |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
11.28.20 | Remind me to never use even a pinch of hyperbole around you. I literally couldnt possibly agree more with anyone else in this thread and you still gotta argue |
YoYoMancuso
11.28.20 | Matt Garstka is my fav drummer working today and the way he uses double kick to accentuate things rather than just ram you over the head with it hits the perfect balance |
YoYoMancuso
11.28.20 | "a pinch of hyperbole" is 100% a song with 300 bpm triggered double kick in it |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | I mean, you've reacted to some of my hyperbole too. Lmao these are just the dangers of being figurative on the internet. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
11.28.20 | "Matt Garstka is my fav drummer working today and the way he uses double kick to accentuate things rather than just ram you over the head with it hits the perfect balance"
A rare breed |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | Yeah, Matt Garstka is a goat. Love watching his demos and clinics. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
11.28.20 | @million bet 20 bucks I haven't argued with you over mild hyperbole over something we agree about. Something we actually disagree about sure |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | I wouldn't call what I did just now arguing with you though. Drop your guard, Potsy. I'm your fren. lmao |
ShadowRemains
11.28.20 | tasteful use of it is one of my favorite aspects of dm/bm records, overuse of it or blown out production of it is one of my least favorite aspects of dm/bm records |
robertsona
11.28.20 | yah, I was about to go off for two paragraphs about how good the Double Bass is in julia holter's "city appearing" whoops |
loveisamixtape
11.28.20 | trying to picture dm db in city appearing and it would definitely ruin a Killer song |
rockarollacola
11.28.20 | Hell yeah, give me the double bass. Some bands don't need it, but it never hurts to have it. |
robertsona
11.28.20 | i'm trying to think of my favorite use of the double bass pedal tbh
maybe that first song on Colored Sands |
Shadowmire
11.28.20 | I knew it would be about drums but I still kind of hoped for strings |
loveisamixtape
11.28.20 | blood incantation hidden history of the human race /thread |
widowslaugh123
11.28.20 | Hard nah |
BenThatsMyJamin
11.28.20 | Um... yes duh |
Colton
11.28.20 | they can have as many basses as they want, the singers just need to stop with that growling shit |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
11.28.20 | Millie I genuinely get the vibe that if you said "I like pepperoni pizza" and I said "I really like pepperoni pizza" there would still be a problem and I'm just not about that, that's all. I'd rather just agree every once in a while and not have to worry about the semantics of every off-hand remark.
Back to topic, on the whole I far more admire technical drummers who use single kick because they often use dynamics, creativity, finesse and just real hard earned skill/chops over pure bombast that can come off as overcompensation. There's a restrained, intuitive feel about the way highly trained jazz drummers play for instance that metal drummers often lack. I would say I lacked that in my drumming career so it's easy to be critical of other metal drummers and more easily impressed with jazz drummers
But there are some examples of metal drummers that transcend that, I always felt the old intronaut drummer was pretty spectacular and tasteful |
MillionDead
11.28.20 | lol Agreed with your entire last post. How's that for starters? |
JustJoe.
11.28.20 | who doesn’t love pepperoni pizza honestly |
loveisamixtape
11.28.20 | i disagree with both of you in only the offensive ways |
GhandhiLion
11.28.20 | "If you mean double bass as in stand up bass then yes because it is literally the best instrument and all music is better with it"
based and bass pilled |
WatchItExplode
11.28.20 | I'm lactose intolerant vegetarian with a gluten sensitivity so... |
deathschool
11.28.20 | Yes |
botb
11.28.20 | It depends on what the music calls for. It can both be a crutch or a compliment, you
just have to use it correctly. |
Emim
11.28.20 | Gavin Harrison has some tasty double kick stuff |
DavidYowi
11.29.20 | I'd say Tim Alexander of Primus has the most tasteful use of double bass. He's very selective about when to use the double bass, but he can also go to town on them like a full-on metal drummer |
MO
11.29.20 | Depends on the sound, genre of metal, etc |
AlexKzillion
11.29.20 | I really don't care honestly
Like I find shit like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9jDGui9fvk&ab_channel=ElEsteparioSiberiano ...to be very impressive from a technical standpoint, especially as someone who grew up making shitty drum covers myself, but like idk it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the music all that much. |
AlexKzillion
11.29.20 | I guess I'd say when it comes to metal I'm a double bass guy just cause all the dudes I grew up idolizing were sick with it |
AlexKzillion
11.29.20 | Matt Garstka is my fav drummer working today and the way he uses double kick to accentuate things rather than just ram you over the head with it hits the perfect balance [2]
Matt Halpern too (though he obv uses it a bit more given the band he's in). Never heard two drummers who made just straight 16th note double kicks sound so groovy |
Morningrise767
11.29.20 | yes and no |
AlexKzillion
11.29.20 | "but tbh I eyeroll whenever I see someone complaining about how the second pedal is a" crutch, " or whatever"
It's def the truth though depending on how early in your development you start using one. Like I could play A7X and Trivium songs out the ass after only like 12-18 months of playing... take away my left pedal and I basically couldn't play anymore. Took me years to work myself out of that dependency and actually hold my own with a single pedal. |
wildinferno2010
11.29.20 | Yeah, I could see that, but I feel like that could be true about basically anything you start out playing with. At some point, you're gonna realise that you've been relying too much on something, and have to break the habit. It's kind of just a thing beginner's have to go through - you get good at whatever you wanted to get good at when you start out, and then realise you haven't worked on developing much of the things that really matter (good timing, stick/foot control, etc.).
Unless you have, like, a really good teacher or something to keep you on track |