tectactoe: tec tiers: PIZZA TOPPINGS

tectactoe 09.22.21	Optimal three-topping pie for me is Bacon + Green Pepper + Roasted Garlic, shit is absolutely cash money.
widowslaugh123 09.22.21	Gotta be a particular roasted garlic. Some shitty brand roasted garlic can absolutely destroy a whole pie
Purpl3Spartan 09.22.21	Agreed for most part but why pepperoni so low
Havey 09.22.21	Prosciutto, basil, garlic
Avagantamos 09.22.21	correct pepperoni oppinion
Colton 09.22.21	top tier: goat cheese, feta cheese, mushrooms, spinach, garlic, crushed red pepper flakes, pesto sauce, parmesan cheese everything else sucks
Havey 09.22.21	tuna
Ryus 09.22.21	god tier: anchovies /thread
evilford 09.22.21	Beef is me fave
tectactoe 09.22.21	'Agreed for most part but why pepperoni so low' It's just such an overrated and overused topping. Overall taste of pepperoni is mid at best and so all it does is get the pizza extra greasy. (Yes bacon releases grease, too, but bacon is delicious and the bacon grease soaks in and also tastes great.)
WeepingBanana 09.22.21	One of the best pizzas I’ve ever had in my life was topped with mashed potatoes White clam pies are the best tho Also anchovies rule and at the very least you need to include them in your red sauce Also I love a sunny side up egg in the middle of my pizza w a runny yolk to dip in
tectactoe 09.22.21	'Gotta be a particular roasted garlic. Some shitty brand roasted garlic can absolutely destroy a whole pie' True. Consider my tier list under the running assumption only top quality ingredients used.
Aberf 09.22.21	> god tier: anchovies How very cultured of you sir.
Colton 09.22.21	idk why as a man, you would ever put artichoke hearts on your pizza. tf is it that you "heart" so much? cock????
tectactoe 09.22.21	I don't mind the underlying flavor of anchovies but they're too damn salty. May as well just add a salt lick to your pie. I do love a sunny side up egg, too, though I tried to limit the toppings to "somewhat" popular ones. I guess egg could be added, tho. That would be very high tier for me.
tectactoe 09.22.21	'idk why as a man, you would ever put artichoke hearts on your pizza. tf is it that you "heart" so much? cock????' Don't mind artichoke hearts _generally_ but they are dreadful on a pizza, and taste like shit when baked all willy-nilly in the open like that. Same with eggplant and pineapple actually. I love those foodstuffs but not on a damn pizza fer chrissakes.
Ryus 09.22.21	"I don't mind the underlying flavor of anchovies but they're too damn salty. May as well just add a salt lick to your pie." thats why you gotta combine it with somethin like basil and roasted tomatoes
WeepingBanana 09.22.21	Eggplant pizza is great In general tho the quality of a pizza is way more determined by the sauce and crust than by the toppings. Toppings are nice but if the foundation sucks then the whole thing sucks
tectactoe 09.22.21	Agree 100%. Whenever visiting a new pizza place for the first time I always get their version of a margherita, just to get a feel for the crust and sauce. If those suck, no amount of glorious toppings can salvage.
Emim 09.22.21	Olives are a top pick for me, same with bell peppers. I love a good combination pizza.
WatchItExplode 09.22.21	White sauce spicy sausage peppers red onion. Ever since I started making homemade flatbreads with that combo the fam looks at me different.
WeepingBanana 09.22.21	If anyone has the displeasure of driving thru CT you absolutely have to get pizza in New Haven. May be obvious advice but it really is the best in the world. And yes I’ve tried every pizza in the world
Aberf 09.22.21	https://v.redd.it/0pyftk2nd4f71
tectactoe 09.22.21	I have had some good white sauce (blanca) pizzas but at what point do they become not pizzas, but flatbreads? I mean I guess you could argue that 98% of toppings would invalidate the product as true "pizza" but I'd say at the very least you need to leave the base ingredients - leavened dough made from wheat and tomato-based sauce - alone.
WeepingBanana 09.22.21	Tomato sauce is definitely not necessary for it to be pizza lol. The best pizza of all time, the white clam pie at Pepe’s in New Haven, doesn’t have red sauce
tectactoe 09.22.21	I'm not saying that it's "technically" not pizza, I'm just saying it feels a little disingenuous to me, to call it a pizza when you've gone and switched one of the two ingredients it's essentially built upon. You can (and others will/have) argue that any sauce will do. But is crust smothered in e.g. barbecue sauce and topped with grilled chicken and dollops of sour cream a "pizza" in your eyes? Where do we draw the line?!?
WeepingBanana 09.22.21	Yeah I’d call that pizza, why not? Just kind of a know it when you see it situation I guess if I had to lay down ground rules I’d say it’s a typically high hydration dough cooked in an extremely hot oven with things on top of it as it cooks. I can’t really think of any other food category that that could be confused with based on those rules. Tho I’m sure there are exceptions to those rules that I’m not thinking of
tectactoe 09.22.21	"artisanal flatbread"
Josh D. 09.22.21	green pepper god tier? as in bell pepper? we gotta neutralize this freak
WeepingBanana 09.22.21	Pizza crust kind of is flatbread. I mean an argument can be made
WatchItExplode 09.22.21	I take one pizza dough ball chop it in half boom two flatbreads. I get that there are those pizza purists out there but why would you want to do that to the most universal and fun food?
Trifolium 09.22.21	Every Italian ever is turning in their graves.
WeepingBanana 09.22.21	No they’re not
tectactoe 09.22.21	I am merely playing devil's advocate. Idgaf what you call it as long as it tastes good.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 09.22.21	List is OK but artichoke hearts in shit tier and green peppers in god tier is just absolutely preposterous
Lord(e)Po)))ts 09.22.21	You know for a fact the only pizza colton eats is a ketchup base with ham and extra mild cheddar
WatchItExplode 09.22.21	Now you're talking. I have no doubt somebody out there has a pumpkin spice dessert pizza promotion right now. I also totally get how a good margherita pizza is not really part of the same conversation as a lot of this stuff. Sounds like hot pocket pizza pots...
Colton 09.22.21	pots’ pizza: generic mozzarella cheese, liquified propecia base, pepperoni, onions, garlic and powdered rogaine flakes
Colton 09.22.21	dipped in overwhelming tattoo regret
Winesburgohio 09.22.21	God Tier: Anchovies, Asparagus, Calamari, Olives
Satellite 09.22.21	Pepperoni + Hatch green chile or fuck off
Sinternet 09.22.21	le ebic bacon lmao
Havey 09.22.21	if u visit sweden remember to try kebabpizza xD
Aberf 09.22.21	is bacon the most overrated food ever?
tectactoe 09.22.21	Imagine not liking bacon. It’s not MY fault a bunch of fucking fedora donning, basement dwelling neckbeards turned it into a meme.
ArsMoriendi 09.22.21	@tec: you ever have broccoli rabe on a pizza? I like bacon, but I prefer it super crispy, and I feel like it'd be mushy on pizza.
WeepingBanana 09.22.21	Bacon is fine but def overrated and not a great pizza topping. Would rather have a sweet smoked sausage if that’s the flavor profile I’m going for
Colton 09.22.21	bacon is a stupid food and a stupid concept
ArsMoriendi 09.22.21	Sausage and chicken are prob the best meat pizza toppings Both go well with broccoli rabe ;)
Ryus 09.22.21	had a pizza recently with italian sausage, fresno chiles, and krispy kale. shit slapped
Colton 09.22.21	best dip is creamy garlic/caesar. blue cheese is also good but it's gotta have a good viscosity to it none of that watery shit. worst is ranch
Colton 09.22.21	but I also feel like the normalization of dip with pizza has directly contributed to an increasingly gluttonous and instant gratification addicted society that has entirely lost touch with the concept of moderation and self control. we used to just dip the crust. now we gotta dip every goddamn bite like fucking animals. I miss how it was but there's no going back now
Ryus 09.22.21	ive never dipped my pizza in anything in my entire life so idk what youre talking about
Winesburgohio 09.22.21	Colton youre mad as a meat axe!!! I have no idea what you mean
Colton 09.22.21	you guys have gotta be fucking with me there's no way you've never had pizza with dip
Drifter 09.23.21	im a pepperoni kinda guy
Colton 09.23.21	bunch of puritanical mfs itt
JeetJeet 09.23.21	Pineapple belongs in the top tier Also you're smoking dick if pepperoni is bottom tier
tectactoe 09.23.21	Have had broccoli rabe but never on pizza. Seems like it’d be oddly bitter on there but everything is worth trying at least once I suppose. Also if you need to dip your pizza, something’s wrong with your pizza 🧐
Colton 09.23.21	swear to god I don't know anyone who doesn't have dip with pizza maybe it's an ontario thing?
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	"the normalization of dip with pizza" Maybe if you only eat Pizza-Hut tier pizza this is a thing
Colton 09.23.21	you're from new york you know nothing about pizza
Ryus 09.23.21	nice bait colton new york pizza>>>>
Colton 09.23.21	new yorkers live in this weird bubble of pizza clout that blinds them to what they're actually eating
Colton 09.23.21	best pizza comes from regions that aren't recognized for their pizza at all. that way people have something to prove
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	"Have had broccoli rabe but never on pizza. Seems like it’d be oddly bitter on there but everything is worth trying at least once I suppose." It's bitter anywhere, but idk it's like a good bitter and meshes well against the sweetness of the sauce
Ryus 09.23.21	yeah buttfuck nowhere, canada actually has the best pizza
Colton 09.23.21	a pizza could be made with gerbil piss as the base instead of tomato sauce and new yorkers would gobble that shit up and rate it 5 stars because they have to maintain that new york pizza pride
Ryus 09.23.21	nah ive had plenty of subpar ny pizza
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	A weird baseless claim that could be used in anyway and be as logical^ Hmm lemme try: a baguette could be made with gerbil droppings as dough instead of wheat and Parisians would gobble that shit up and rate it 5 stars because they have to maintain that Paris baguette pride see how silly you sound Colton?
Colton 09.23.21	you guys don't even dip your pizza. it's automatically so much worse right off the bat because of that, even if NY has some mythical pizza cooking methods that nobody else knows, you're having a worse dining experience than me
Ryus 09.23.21	hmm no
Colton 09.23.21	it's like when Bjork made Medulla cause she was confident that just her vocals were enough to carry an album but really if she just added some quality instrumentals we could have had a more worthy successor to Vespertine. that's you guys with your dipless pizza
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	Medulla is really good though, and its own animal, bad example
Colton 09.23.21	I can concede that new york pizza is its own animal but it's a shitty animal like a mole rat or a possum
Winesburgohio 09.23.21	"you guys don't even dip your pizza"
Colton 09.23.21	pretty sure most pizzas here automatically come with dip
Ryus 09.23.21	yeah thats not a good sign for the quality of the pizza lmao
Colton 09.23.21	bet you guys also don't put sauce on your steak cause it's "not a good sign for the quality of the steak" or some shit
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	Actually yes... Steak sauce detracts from well made steak Salt and pepper's all you need unless it's like a skirt steak marinade or like chuck steak
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	Fuck, now I'm imagining Colton drowning a porterhouse in A1
Havey 09.23.21	americans cant even into banana curry pizza
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	@Havey: I Googled it, and NYC apparently has some places that do it But I gotta ask: why do they use bananas when plantains are better for cooking?
Colton 09.23.21	sauce makes every food better. they’re the best part about eating
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	Don't get me wrong my favorite food of all time (pesto) is a sauce And I like making sauces in general, but uh... it's not meant for every food, especially the jarred shit
tectactoe 09.23.21	do not bring bb Björk into your shenanigans, Colt. also Detroit pizza is best pizza.
tectactoe 09.23.21	‘ sauce makes every food better. they’re the best part about eating’ Colton i’m about to blow your mind but pizza actually already has sauce ON it 😮 😮 😮 🤯
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	I've never had Detroit pizza, but I'd be interested in trying it
tectactoe 09.23.21	I am biased because I have lived in metro-Detroit my whole life so “Detroit style pizza” is basically just “pizza” at most places around here. It’s basically pizza with a much thicker crust that stays soft and chewy in the middle but gets crispy and crunchy on the edges because it’s (supposed to be) cooked in a steel pan.
ArsMoriendi 09.23.21	Hmm Interesting As long as it isn't like Buffalo, NY pizza. That shit's horrible. Used to go to college in Buffalo and the native Buffalonians were so proud of it despite it tasting hardly better than the fast food stuff.
Ryus 09.23.21	i had detroit pizza once and i was not rly a fan t b h
tectactoe 09.23.21	Understandable. I’m a bread kinda guy, tho, so I love a thicker crust as long as it’s done properly.
Sinternet 09.23.21	americans thinking they have better pizza than actual italians lmao
Colton 09.23.21	"I love a thicker crust as long as it’s done properly." pretty sure bread that's literally burnt isn't done properly
tectactoe 09.23.21	Colton just admit you eat your pizza with alfalfa sprouts and plain tofu cubes and gracefully bow out before you embarrass yourself any further
Colton 09.23.21	tofu on pizza could be good if it was cooked right. never tried it. man up and try yours with dip next time though
tectactoe 09.23.21	What dip do you recommend. Only accoutrement I’ve ever added to pizza is hot sauce. My wife uses ranch but that shit looks so gross.
Koris 09.23.21	Dip pizza in eggnog, it really compliments the cheese
Colton 09.23.21	caesar dressing/garlic dip
Colton 09.23.21	or blue cheese
Colton 09.23.21	ranch is the worst sauce in the world imo. literally tastes like expired milk
WatchItExplode 09.23.21	My favorite to go is a Thai pie with spicy peanut sauce chix peppers green onion mandarin oranges. What can't be a pizza? It's beautiful.
Aberf 09.23.21	"americans thinking they have better pizza than actual italians lmao" But people's taste is like, you know, subjective right?
fogza 09.23.21	Thicker pizza and pizza with dip both sound wrong.
Colton 09.23.21	if you guys haven't had dip with pizza you're actually out of your mind
fogza 09.23.21	If you're going to dip your pizza in some gloopy dip it might as well be anything. Buy a focaccia or something. It's like those disgusting fast food pizzas where people slather it in BBQ sauce or mayo or something, and the pizza is literally slimy and soggy
chemicalmarriage 09.23.21	Deep dish is the shit. Pizza pie
Colton 09.23.21	people eating oil fried bread topped with heart disease inducing amounts of melted cheese, topped with red meat and more cheese, but dip crosses the line
fogza 09.23.21	"Deep dish is the shit. Pizza pie" ^ 🤮
fogza 09.23.21	I've always thought the trick of a good pizza is putting just the right amount of cheese, topping and sauce on the thinnest base possible so it doesn't seem over the top. Clearly I was wrong, it's about having a pot of blue cheese whip that I can then dip my whole complete flavour profile into and overwhelm it.
fogza 09.23.21	Oh and who fries good pizza bread in oil, you put it in a wood fired oven
Colton 09.23.21	" it's about having a pot of blue cheese whip that I can then dip my whole complete flavour profile into and overwhelm it." this but unironically. once you try it you can't go back. not having dip is like choosing to use $10 gas station earbuds instead of good headphones so you don't overwhelm your ears
fogza 09.23.21	LMAO Colton. The man who makes NOTHING with sauce likes his pizza dunked. Go figure.
Colton 09.23.21	i make everything with sauce that's my whole point
chemicalmarriage 09.23.21	Fogza is the coolest guy at the party
fogza 09.23.21	I'm pretty sure I saw a photo of some wraps you made, no raita in sight. And some weird dry burger patty things. Could be I missed the sauce, it was probably in a bowl next to it, you probably have plain pasta and dip each strand individually.
fogza 09.23.21	"Fogza is the coolest guy at the party" I'm not sure if this is ironic, because if I'm being truthful and honest, this has never been the case at any party I've attended 😞
tectactoe 09.23.21	Deep dish pizza isn’t terrible but it also really isn’t pizza. It doesn’t hit the same. It’s more like a casserole or an actual, literal pie.
Demon of the Fall 09.23.21	green pepper in 1. black olive in 3. Oh man.
tectactoe 09.23.21	What’s with all the green pepper hate? It is a top tier veg next to broccoli and it’s earthy sweetness complements pizza perfectly.
outliers 09.23.21	Stopped reading after "goat cheese"
Demon of the Fall 09.23.21	'It is a top tier veg next to broccoli' Keep digging...
Ryus 09.23.21	roasted tomatoes is an S-tier topping btw
tectactoe 09.23.21	I could see roasted or sun roasted tomatoes being higher tier; had it a few times and it’s been great. The roasted element adds a flavor component that isn’t there with regular (raw) tomatoes, which ends up being not bad but redundant. Also, Demon, you don’t like broccoli either? The fuck? What kinda veg you eat? If you say corn and carrots are your favorite veg you will confirm that you have the palate of a ten year old.
Pikazilla 09.23.21	Anchovies on pizza are fucking disgusting
Ryus 09.23.21	im telling ya best pizza: anchovies, basil, roasted tomatoes shit's fire
fogza 09.23.21	My fave pizza is bacon, rosemary and fresh tomato put on after the pizza is cooked.
WeepingBanana 09.23.21	I can see why people don’t like green peppers. They’re def bitter. But when they’re balanced out with other stuff they’re real nice. Wouldn’t say they’re top tier by any means tho Not liking anchovies is forreal the biggest poser alert tho
Rowhaus 09.23.21	How can you put banana peppers over pepperoni and jalapenos
WatchItExplode 09.23.21	Red or orange bell peppers over green every day of the week
WeepingBanana 09.23.21	I agree with that ranking. Briny/pickled stuff on pizza is always a plus (hence anchovies). Steak and banana peppers is a classic combo for me
WeepingBanana 09.23.21	Sometimes you gotta have the bitterness of the green tho. I feel like just red or orange with something fatty like sausage or bacon would just end up too sweet and rich. The green really rounds it out
Demon of the Fall 09.23.21	'Also, Demon, you don’t like broccoli either? The fuck? What kinda veg you eat?' Oh I eat it, but a top tier veg it ain't. You can't be seriously putting it up there with the likes of aubergine, courgette and asparagus? These aren't votes for pizza toppings by the way, although I'd use all of them over broccoli.
tectactoe 09.23.21	Asparagus is also top tier. And while I love zucchini, I’d put broccoli over it most days. Eggplant is merely OK for me. I’ve had some really nasty, mealy eggplants that have kinda soured me on them over the years. Though I still love a good eggplant parm or baba ghanoush.
Colton 09.23.21	there's an indian place near me that makes a cauliflower dish so good that it automatically propels cauliflower to the best vegetable ranking. I had heard people hype up cauliflower before but this stuff is truly next level
WeepingBanana 09.23.21	Is it cauliflower pakora or do you mean in some curry or something? Pakora rules, especially with cauliflower. Reminds me of fish and chips for some reason (when the batter is good). Anyone fuck with cauliflower crust pizza? Obviously not very good but as far as abominations go it’s not that bad if you’re on a diet
Colton 09.23.21	hmm the only pakora I've had is this kind my grandma makes which is different than this cauliflower thing I'm describing but it might technically be pakora I'm not really sure
Colton 09.23.21	https://ibb.co/cCq2Svq
WeepingBanana 09.23.21	Interesting. Indian food is so complicated
Colton 09.23.21	it can be, but a lot of the best stuff is actually pretty simple
WeepingBanana 09.23.21	I mean more it’s just so varied. Feel like I’ve seen a million different ways to make the same thing, and also a million different variants on those things. Or how you can have a 12 spice masala but if you adjust the amounts of a few, toast some but not others, etc make a few tiny permutations you can end up w a completely different flavor profile
WeepingBanana 09.23.21	And that’s just within curries. Not even considering all the breads, chutneys, raita, chaats, and desserts. And there’s prob hundreds of things I’ve never even heard of
tectactoe 09.23.21	Palak paneer 😩👌🏻
Colton 09.23.21	very true banana. and you can mix everything with everything palak paneer has a very interesting ratio of visual grossness to deliciousness
tectactoe 09.23.21	Also love some bhindi masala, too. One of the few ways in which I’ll eat okra.
tectactoe 09.24.21	Okra on pizza tho 🤢
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Big fan of chili chicken lately. It hits that perfect junk food/take out itch. Also found a new place that makes by far the best dal makhni I’ve ever had so lately that’s been my fav Indian food Forreal tho any recs on cauliflower crust pizza brands? I’ve made it myself a few times but it’s wayyyyy too much work for something that’s ultimately disappointing. Just trying to be a tad healthier lately and if I can sub out like 1 out of every 4 pizzas I get with cauliflower crust then that’s good enough for me
Colton 09.24.21	I think convenience is a big part of sustainable healthy eating patterns, so if it’s a ton of work, it probably won’t work long term. maybe just eat more cauliflower and then have pizza separately also pizza is super unhealthy regardless and adding cauliflower won’t negate that
cold 09.24.21	Just went to a place yesterday that had brussels sprout pizza, so there's that
Rowhaus 09.24.21	I think trying to turn pizza into health food is a fool's errand. That's just me. I like keeping those worlds apart.
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	I do eat fairly healthy, and don’t have pizza very often, but if I could find a cauliflower crust that doesn’t make me wanna end it all and that satiates me enough so that it increases the amount of time between real pizzas that’d be good. First and foremost I should probably drastically reduce how much I drink lol Love Brussels sprouts but it’s hard to imagine that working on a pizza logistically
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	I have no illusions about it being a health food lol but if I can cut out the lions share of carbs and like 300 (that’s an estimate) calories by doing that sure why not
outliers 09.24.21	"also pizza is super unhealthy regardless and adding cauliflower won’t negate that" not really. buy premade whole wheat or Cauliflower pizza crust and make it yourself. Takes 2 minutes of prep to make and you obviously can control how much cheese you put on it. I like pesto and light cheese on thin whole wheat crust with lots of veggies.
cold 09.24.21	best of all timeeeeeee https://www.zorchpizza.com/
Rowhaus 09.24.21	Basil pesto is the shit no doubt. I put that stuff on anything I can.
Egarran 09.24.21	Making a pizza I don't get the impression that I'm dealing with a super unhealthy thing. But maybe all those nice ingredients together fuse into some murderous substance.
Colton 09.24.21	pizza is just inherently unhealthy. it's just oil soaked bread coated in cheese. the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fats, and the high presence of trans fats in the cheese does not make your arteries happy. if you eat a bunch of pizza and then go do cardio after you can literally feel your heart working overtime to compensate
Storm In A Teacup 09.24.21	I always feel it is healthier if it is thin crust and light sauce. My old ass would feel bloated and heartburn if I had a couple thick heavy sauces slices.
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	If your goal is weight loss, which =/= healthy mind you, cauliflower crust basically takes care of that whole aspect
Colton 09.24.21	lol what
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	I’m no dietician but isn’t it basically consensus that low carb is the best way to lose weight? Tomatoes, cauliflower and cheese are all extremely low carb
Colton 09.24.21	no, not even remotely
Colton 09.24.21	you need to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight which pizza does not help because it's packed with calories
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Yeah I’m not disputing that, but in terms of what macro is better to cut basically every resource I can find says carbs. Can you link me any research that says otherwise?
Colton 09.24.21	macros don't determine how much fat you lose, only a calorie deficit does, regardless of macros. cutting carbs can cause you to lose water weight when you first switch to a low carb diet, but not actual fat. losing water weight won't actually make you healthier and more often than not it's not sustainable long term anyway
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Like if you’re an average person trying to lose weight with the stipulation that pizza is your cheat meal, and you’re also the kind of person where cauliflower crust can at least partially give you the illusion that you’re eating pizza, then I’d say that’s a pretty decent part of your game plan, no?
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Oh okay I see we’re at the point of the discussion where you’re not reading what I’m saying. All good bro
Colton 09.24.21	not really because it's still gonna be high in calories either way because of the oil and cheese. it will reduce the calories which can help weight loss but it won't be a significant difference, and it would be the reduction in calories that helps you, not the reduction in carbs
Colton 09.24.21	oh you're upset now lmao
porcupinetheater 09.24.21	Shit tier: Pizza
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Okay can you link me to anything saying that it’s better to cut fat and/or protein than it is to cut carbs as a way of cutting overall calories? Cause literally everything I can find says the contrary
Colton 09.24.21	it literally doesn’t matter, calories are calories. if your goal is simply to reduce your caloric intake then it doesn’t matter which specific macros you cut, you just have to reduce your calorie intake. this is common knowledge. some ppl will argue it’s better to cut carbs because fat and protein are more filling, but ultimately it’s maintaining a calorie deficit that allows for weight loss. you can eat nothing but carbs or nothing but fat and as long as you’re in a calorie deficit you will lose weight
Colton 09.24.21	https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caloric_deficit
Colton 09.24.21	all three macronutrients contain calories so you can reduce any of them to reduce your calorie intake which will lead to weight loss if you are in a deficit
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	“some ppl will argue it’s better to cut carbs because fat and protein are more filling“ Yeah this is my point and basically everything I can find, Wikipedia or otherwise, says it has a higher success rate
Colton 09.24.21	it might have a higher success rate for people who struggle with their appetite, but to claim that eating cauliflower crust will take care of weight loss entirely is completely untrue because you're still eating a fuckton of calories with the cauliflower crust from all the oil and cheese. at the end of the day the calorie deficit is all that matters, regardless of how you achieve it. it's like how a lot of people can run for a longer period of time if they listen to music while they do it, but listening to music doesn't actually burn calories, it's the running that does that. so eat whatever macros you want, but if you're not in a deficit you won't lose weight (unless it's water weight, which really doesn't matter much. you can lose 10 pounds of water weight in 2 days if you really want but it won't make you healthier)
Colton 09.24.21	then there's also the fact that reducing carb intake reduces your intake of fruits and vegetables which contain vital micronutrients that most people already don't get enough of
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Okay well good thing I didn’t say that!
Colton 09.24.21	"If your goal is weight loss, which =/= healthy mind you, cauliflower crust basically takes care of that whole aspect"
Cryptkeeper 09.24.21	Reddit thread
tectactoe 09.24.21	Cheese is not unhealthy
tectactoe 09.24.21	It is very calorie dense but it is not unhealthy.
Colton 09.24.21	cheese is one of the least healthy things you can eat man. unfortunately, it just happens to be probably the best tasting too
Colton 09.24.21	nothing with 0.3g of trans fat for a 120 calorie serving is close to healthy
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	I think it’s pretty obvious I meant the whole aspect of cutting carbs from pizza. I’ll try and be more painstakingly explicit in the future
tectactoe 09.24.21	Also in my long experience with lifting (and therefore going through cut and bulk cycles following strict calorie goals and limitations), you will never make a “low calorie” pizza that will satisfy the craving of the real thing. I’ve tried everything. Years ago I started following strict 6 days a week, then one day per week eat whatever I want. That’s when I’d have stuff I was craving like pizza and ice cream and buffalo wings lol. Never hindered my weight loss, just have to slightly lower your weekly calories by a little to account. Bulk cycles….that’s a different story. Used to eat a full Digornio pizza followed by two bagels and a pack of pop tarts for dinner. No wonder my blood sugar runs high now.
Colton 09.24.21	yeah that is obvious Banana cause that's exactly what you said. my point is that cutting some carbs from pizza does not make it good for weight loss because you're still consuming a ton of calories...
Colton 09.24.21	yeah tec I used to be the same, if I was on a bulk I never really cared about how healthy I was eating, until I started doing a lot of cardio and I was like damn I gotta clean my diet up. cheese is the hardest thing for me to cut out
tectactoe 09.24.21	Naturally occurring trans fats are not the same as manufactured trans fats and do not have the same detrimental effects on metabolic health because they’ve not been artificially hydrogenated.
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Surely you’re not saying cauliflower and flour are equally as caloric are you?
Colton 09.24.21	no they're not, that's why I specifically noted multiple times that it's the reduction in calories that will help you, not the reduction in carbs. ironic that you told me I'm not reading what you say
tectactoe 09.24.21	One sample does not a conclusive study make, but I’ve been eating cheese routinely, quite literally every single day in the range of 3 to 5 oz per day (84 to 140 g), sometimes more on cheat days lol, and my cholesterol levels are (knock on wood) one of the few bodily metrics of mine that have remained great over all this time.
Colton 09.24.21	"Naturally occurring trans fats are not the same as manufactured trans fats and do not have the same detrimental effects on metabolic health because they’ve not been artificially hydrogenated." they're not as bad but they're certainly still quite bad. there's a reason dietary groups that don't consume trans fat have much lower levels of heart disease and higher life expectancy
Colton 09.24.21	it's likely your cholesterol levels have been kept within a healthy range by living a healthy lifestyle and working out so much
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Reduction in calories by way of reduction in carbs, which is a more successful strategy for most people, which I said like 6 times lol
Colton 09.24.21	yeah but you're still eating pizza. it has a ton of calories either way. having a leaf of spinach with 3 bowls of crack doesn't make for a healthy night
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Woah really??
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	Anyways, what’s y’all favorite frozen pizza brand? Was a big fan of Newman’s but I feel like they’ve been fucking w their product lately and I’m looking to switch. Don’t say digiornos
Pizza 09.24.21	basil, sausage, and pepperoni.
tectactoe 09.24.21	I disagree. I’ve seen no studies indicating a direct link of naturally occurring trans fats to increased risk of heart disease. This was long believed true for saturated fat as well and has since been debunked many times. In many of the studies I’ve seen that attempt to point to “fat = bad”, the control group also has a diet high in processed carbohydrates and hydrogenated oil and things that have been proven time and again to absolutely be detrimental to cardiac health. Sugar, refined carbs, and hydrogenated oils are the biggest players, largely because a majority of people don’t know what “moderation” means. If you have a study that links naturally occurring trans fats to increased risk of heart disease without confounding factors like sugars and refined carbohydrates and such, I’d love to see it. I’m not aware of one that exists because I’m not sure such a study could even accurately be conducted.
Storm In A Teacup 09.24.21	If you ever want someone to argue something for you cuz you're too lazy just hire Corkon.
Storm In A Teacup 09.24.21	"you but you're still eating pizza" 🤣 idk even know why but 🤣
WeepingBanana 09.24.21	“If you have a study that links naturally occurring trans fats to increased risk of heart disease without confounding factors like sugars and refined carbohydrates and such, I’d love to see it“ Wikipedia link to “trans fats” page incoming
Colton 09.24.21	https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2830458/ "This review provides the first quantitative comparison of the effect of ruminant trans fatty acids and CLA with that of industrial trans fatty acids on blood lipoproteins in humans. Our analysis shows that all three classes of trans fatty acids raise the ratio of LDL to HDL, and therefore, presumably, the risk of coronary heart disease. The effect of ruminant trans fatty acids and CLA on the LDL to HDL ratio was less than that of industrial trans fatty acids although the difference was not significant."
Colton 09.24.21	"Most of the trans fatty acids in milk and meat consist of vaccenic acid and other trans-mono-unsaturated fatty acids similar to those found in partially hydrogenated vegetable oils (figure 1). Our results suggest that all such fatty acids with a double bond in the trans configuration raise LDL and lower HDL cholesterol. Removing all such ruminant trans fatty acids from the diet would lower the total trans fatty acid intake in the United States and Europe by about 0.5% of energy [9], [64] and might therefore reduce cardiovascular disease risk by 1.5 to 6% [5]. Such a specific removal of ruminant trans fatty acids from milk and meat is, however, technically not feasible. Our results do reinforce the widespread advice to reduce intake of ruminant fats, because these are also the major source of saturated fatty acids in affluent diets. Recent changes in dairy cattle feeding have led to milk with a lower content of saturated fatty acids and a higher content of cis-9, trans-11 CLA and other dairy trans fats [65]. Our data suggest that the effect of these changes on heart disease risk in consumers of milk and meat fat are at the very least equivocal."
MillionDead 09.24.21	Pepperoni doesn’t deserve this active libel.
tectactoe 09.24.21	"CLA is a minor animal trans fatty acid. The effect of dietary CLA on cholesterol will be negligible if we assume that our model is correct." https://chriskresser.com/can-some-trans-fats-be-healthy/ https://www.dairynutrition.ca/nutrients-in-milk-products/fat/natural-trans-fats
tectactoe 09.24.21	Let us also not forget that something that "raises your risk of cardiovascular disease by 3%" is exactly that - it raises your risk by 3%. Meaning if you theoretically have a 6% risk of cardiovascular disease, you now have a 6.18% risk. (I'm not saying that justifies eating like shit, my point is that evaluating a true increase in risk at such an attenuated level is subjective or, more often, merely confounding.)
Colton 09.24.21	sure, but a 6% risk reduction for the most common cause of death in the world is hugely significant, and it’s also not as black and white as just “you have heart disease or you don’t.” An unhealthy diet will impact your overall health in many ways before it actually becomes full on heart disease. It’s like how eating a high sugar diet is bad for you, even if you’re not full on diabetic
Colton 09.24.21	but my main point was that trans fats, natural or artificial are bad for you and the studies show that
tectactoe 09.24.21	I’ve listed two articles that each link to various studies showing the exact opposite, though, which has to do with the chemical composition of the TFAs when produced in a factory vs. naturally occurring in a cow’s stomach. At the end of the day, too much of anything is bad for you. Hell, too much protein can fuck up your kidneys. And a big part of why trans fats fucked up so many people is because they were in EVERYTHING. When we all wrongly assumed saturated fat was the enemy, common products were being pumped with partially hydrogenated oils to compensate. And the masses were substituting large portions of their diets with that crap. The trans fats that occur from ruminant byproducts account for a much smaller percentage of the total fat content by comparison. (And, on top of that, as I maintain, they do not affect your metabolic health the same negative way.) So assuming they did have the same negative effect, the quantity would be much lower almost inherently. Even diets heavy in meat and cheese (like my own lol) don’t culminate nearly as many total TFAs as someone who uses margarine or seed oils in their cooking. All of this, of course, is only exacerbated because a majority of the population doesn’t exercise or maintain a “healthy” lifestyle. There’s no doubt that someone who runs daily, or lifts weights, or swims for an hour each day and each their vegetables and fruits and vitamins will all be able to handle a larger ceiling of TFAs (or anything “bad” for that matter) than someone who sits on the couch all day and has never seen broccoli in their life. Health problems usually work like compounding interest.
tectactoe 09.24.21	(And if the TFAs naturally occurring in meat and dairy were indeed the direct causation for increased cardiovascular disease, you’d have an entire nation of Keto-ers dropping dead from strokes and heart attacks by now lol.)
Colton 09.24.21	that source doesn't appear to actually even support your argument tbh "In a crossover study by Motard-Belanger et al. (47), healthy men (n = 38) consuming a high-iTFA diet (10.2 g/2500 kcal, 3.7% of energy) led to significantly higher LDL-cholesterol (LDL-C) compared with moderate intake of rTFA (4.2 g/2500 kcal, 1.5% of energy)." this makes no sense to me, why would they compare a high artificial trans fat diet with a moderately high natural trans fat one. Of course the high artificial one will be worse it then says "High intake of rTFA (10.2 g/2500 kcal) also led to significantly higher LDL-C compared to a diet low in TFA from any source (control; 2.2 g/2500 kcal, 0.8% of energy) or moderate rTFA." which supports what I'm saying
Colton 09.24.21	"(And if the TFAs naturally occurring in meat and dairy were indeed the direct causation for increased cardiovascular disease, you’d have an entire nation of Keto-ers dropping dead from strokes and heart attacks by now lol" we do, heart disease is the most common cause of death in the world
Colton 09.24.21	but I also agree with the point that in moderation it's probably fine if you live a healthy lifestyle. I eat a decent amount of cheese too. but it's not healthy
Storm In A Teacup 09.24.21	Hey...wait a minute...why is that really good underrated Blink album representing the shit tier?!? 😢🤕
tectactoe 09.24.21	“ we do, heart disease is the most common cause of death in the world” This is a purposely misleading statement as a corollary to what I said. The lion’s share is people dying from heart disease are not following a strict Keto dying, controlling their body weight, and exercising regularly.
tectactoe 09.24.21	"Although limited, feeding studies in rodent models, with either induced or spontaneous dyslipidemia, do not support adverse health effects of VA on markers of CVD risk. Furthermore, findings suggest that VA supplementation may improve dyslipidemia by lowering circulating TG and/or cholesterol and attenuate atherosclerotic progression." "Results from epidemiological studies generally have shown an inverse or no association between rTFA intake and CHD across multiple geographical locations." "In conclusion, although data from experimental models suggest that rTFA may beneficially affect risk of CVD and cancer, further research is needed to determine the effects of VA and c9,t11-CLA in humans as well as clarify the isomer-specific effects of CLA."
tectactoe 09.24.21	At the end of the day it doesn't matter what any generalized study says, though. Health varies quite literally from person to person. My anecdotal contribution to this conversation was that I eat a ton of cheese daily (as well as lots of meat and nuts) and my LDL and HDL cholesterol levels (as well as their relative ratio) has remained good. (Hope I didn't just jinx myself there.) Meanwhile, my blood pressure and blood sugar numbers were not quite so good. When I cut out most sugars and a lot of refined carbs (which included the additional intake of more cheese, meat, and dairy to fill out my diet), those numbers got better and my cholesterol essentially remained unchanged. There are simply too many compiling (and unknowable) factors at play for each individual to make any precise conclusions. I guess my point is that cheese is not inherently unhealthy. It is perhaps unhealthy for someone who is already unhealthy to eat. But if you are "healthy" and maintain a healthy lifestyle otherwise, high cheese and meat consumption is not going to affect you.
Egarran 09.25.21	Well said. Colton has to change his mind now.
kalkwiese 09.25.21	Gud list, I agree with most of it Salami really isn't a good topping imo, very overrated
tectactoe 09.25.21	Yep, salami is just Neiman Marcus pepperoni. (For the record I like salami in general, just not on pizza. Salami sandwiches were my shit back in grade school.)
kalkwiese 09.25.21	Yea, salami is nice, but i don't like the texture it gets from getting baked. Raw salami that's out on the pizza before serving, that's a different thing.
Ryus 09.25.21	the only good pepperoni is the thick-cut ones that curl up
Parallels 09.25.21	If it doesn't a meat button that curls then it isn't even real pepperoni. Also the goat cheese must be smoked and on a BBQ pizza.
Egarran 09.25.21	That's a sexy sentence
EyesWideShut 07.02.22	pepperoni with EXTRA pepperoni IN the crust !!
pizzamachine 07.02.22	Onions are god tier fuck yo life
Purpl3Spartan 07.02.22	True
evilford 07.02.22	True [2]
tectactoe 07.02.22	Honestly I would consider putting them in God tier. They are definitely a god tier food overall, on ‘za maybe slightly less so, but I’d have no qualms with seeing them in either of the top two tiers honestly.
Cimnele 07.02.22	why's einsturzende neubauten so low giggle
pizzamachine 07.02.22	Based
tectactoe 05.23.24	updated
Winesburgohio 05.23.24	i will stop at nothing until you see the light re: anchovies. u gotta come over. pizza a la Wines
mouldypigeon 05.23.24	List is gonna make me cry ctrl+f "nduja" 0/0
Ryus 05.23.24	nduja is the good stuff my god tier would be anchovies (#1 forever), garlic, basil, italian sausage, broccoli rabe
Zac124 05.23.24	All you need on pizza is cheese. Toppings are just overkill.
tectactoe 05.23.24	cheese bread yum
MillionDead 05.23.24	This is absurd
Zac124 05.23.24	'cheese bread yum' It is indeed. Why add extra to something that is already perfect?
tectactoe 05.23.24	“Why have something great when you can have something merely good?”
evilford 05.23.24	Agreed, that's just logic right there
Zac124 05.23.24	More does not equal better, especially when something is already perfect. You can't make something more perfect.
evilford 05.23.24	While that's kind of true, "perfection" is nearly unattainable. Not common at all, not all things that rule are perfect Wierd convo tho let's eat 🍕
Rowhaus 05.23.24	pass the red pepper flakes fam
Zac124 05.23.24	@evilford True, but if something is perfect I am pretty sure it would be the classic cheese pizza.
evilford 05.23.24	Hmmmm cheese za is underrated fs but my personal pick would honestly have to be chicken bacon ranch za. As close to perfection as pizza gets 4 me
evilford 05.23.24	Also tec thanks for having onion in god tier, based af
YoYoMancuso 05.23.24	the spinach disrespect saddens me : (
tectactoe 05.23.24	Onion is a god tier food in general honestly. I go through about 2-3 red onions in a week. I use them on literally everything. Salads, wraps, sandwiches and burgers, sauteed with chicken, in stir fry, on hot dogs or with sausages.
Typhoon24 05.23.24	italian sausage top tier. it and green pepper imo.
Rowhaus 05.23.24	Team onion 100% My weirdest thing with pizza is I vastly prefer tomato sauce over any other. I won't turn down white sauce, bbq, pesto, etc. but nothing is on par with a zesty red sauce. It doesn't feel as much like pizza without it.
Ryus 05.23.24	yeah white pizza is the worst
Typhoon24 05.23.24	it's gotta be tomato or its nasty af
Rowhaus 05.23.24	definitely my least favorite yeah, and if you do another sauce I think it's better to drizzle over the top than make it the foundation
tectactoe 05.23.24	Not a fan of BBQ pizza at all tbh. White sauce is…fine. If paired with very specific toppings. Red sauce all the way.