toxin.: Troy Davis | Sputnikmusic

toxin. 09.22.11	list is random albums
tkxxx7 09.22.11	he was arrested for killing a cop in 1989, last name McPhail I think been in jail or something since then, has had multiple execution dates since his arrest many of the witnesses have rescinded their testimonies plus there was some sort of ballistics evidence that supposedly proved it wasn't him he was gonna be executed today at 7 pm, that didn't happen for some reason or another, and then they executed him at 11:08
iFghtffyrdmns 09.22.11	woah. heavy shit man
toxin. 09.22.11	Yeah I read the facts on the case through Wiki. I should've clarified that what I was curious about why this was so controversial
Hyperion1001 09.22.11	Most people were calling for his release just because they're all sheep and don't actually know the story.
tkxxx7 09.22.11	oh, because people say its wrong because the death penalty shouldn't be used if there is reasonable doubt and/or inconclusive evidence
Hyperion1001 09.22.11	No i don't mean the people who actually have their reasons, i mean the 90% who literally didnt know any of the information behind the case and still acted like they cared. Those are the ones that annoy me.
tkxxx7 09.22.11	that's not true, andcas and my comment wasn't directed at you, Hyp
BallsToTheWall 09.22.11	RIP
iFghtffyrdmns 09.22.11	his last words are on wikipedia if that means anything to anyone, I thought it was kinda cool
toxin. 09.22.11	So pretty much it's an issue of not having enough evidence? Hm I'm inclined to agree with the people who support(ed) him in that case, although I'd like to see the other side of it.
JWT155 09.22.11	Man should've been set free and compensated, not executed.
iFghtffyrdmns 09.22.11	H8 KRYME NUKKA
BallsToTheWall 09.22.11	hOW WILL THIS AFFECT ANY OF OUR LIVES
JWT155 09.22.11	It's more or less a smear to our judicial system and the whole premise of being innocent until proven guilty.
Vesper 09.22.11	It was controversial because he was convicted on eyewitness account (no forensic evidence or murder weapon), but in the twenty years since, seven of the nine witnesses have recanted, some saying they were pressured by the police to say it was him, and others were actually illiterate and couldn't have read the statements they were pressured into signing. So... they executed him on faulty eyewitness accounts (which almost always is faulty anyway).
Hyperion1001 09.22.11
theacademy 09.22.11	what^
toxin. 09.22.11	@Balls, I just wanted to know what all the fuss was about. Not that I know, somewhat (thanks Vesper and a few other people!), I totally agree with you.
theacademy 09.22.11	dude hyperion u r redefining stupid in this thread im kinda digging it
BallsToTheWall 09.22.11	THE SYSTEM IS FLAWED, BIG WHOOP
Masochist 09.22.11	"It was controversial because he was convicted on eyewitness account (no forensic evidence or murder weapon), but in the twenty years since, seven of the nine witnesses have recanted, some saying they were pressured by the police to say it was him, and others were actually illiterate and couldn't have read the statements they were pressured into signing. So... they executed him on faulty eyewitness accounts (which almost always is faulty anyway)." ^^^ That. I don't know much about it (first heard about it tonight), but from what I do know, the witnesses changing or rescinding their stories forms the meat of the controversy. This was his fourth execution date, and even today there were calls to have it postponed (obviously didn't happen).
iFghtffyrdmns 09.22.11	what system isn't. except sputnik obv
Masochist 09.22.11	THE SYSTEM IS FLAWED, BIG WHOOP As I said on someone's FB post, the U.S. Justice System isn't designed to bring justice to the person who committed the crime, it's designed to bring retribution for the crime that was committed--SOMEONE has to pay, even if it wasn't necessarily the person who committed the crime.
Vesper 09.22.11	There's also the fact that he's been set for execution four times... I'd say that pretty much counts as cruel and unusual punishment, especially as one of those times, it was called off an hour and a half before. I think I might have died from the stress of it all over twenty years... I don't know how the victim's family could be okay with this, with even the suspicion that this might be an innocent man going to his death just because you want someone to pay for your grief. Ugh, revenge...
tkxxx7 09.22.11	"This was his fourth execution date, and even today there were calls to have it postponed (obviously didn't happen)." It actually was, for a few hours
TrapThemAlive 09.22.11	shit's fucked up
theacademy 09.22.11	for those of you wondering why there was another delay today: http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/092111.zr.pdf
Athom 09.22.11	There are times where I am perfectly content with someone being murdered by the state as a retaliatory act (like that home invasion/kidnapping in Connecticut last year or even the white supremacist that Texas executed tonight), but I would prefer it to be abolished and for life imprisonment with no parole to take it's place. I do not believe that two wrongs ever make a right especially with something as final as death. Certainty is also a myth in quite a few situations as since 1989 273 death row convictions were found to be fraudulent via later DNA evidence. There is a difference between justice and vengeance, and like I said, even though there are times where a crime is committed that is so extreme that I can rationalize capital punishment, we as a society should strive for something beyond that.
AngelofDeath 09.22.11	What Adam said.
Masochist 09.22.11	"the white supremacist that Texas executed tonight" Posted this all over Facebook just now before reading it. The white supremacist in this case, in case anyone is interested, was one of the guys who was found guilty of tying a black man to the back of their truck and dragging him down the road in Jasper, TX, simply for admission into a white supremacy group. There are very, VERY few times when I think someone legitimately deserves to die no matter WHAT they may have done, but this...this is one of them.
coneren 09.22.11	and then we realized andas is a cunt hating faggot
Masochist 09.22.11	Andcas - I can't imagine what type of human being capable of feeling and thinking and being human could possibly hate someone so much for something as insignificant as skin color that they could not just kill him, but drag him down a road from the back of a truck and watch him be literally ripped apart piece by piece. 25-to-life for beating him up; a life sentence without parole for shooting him. But that? That sickness that would make Jigsaw himself puke with disgust? No...he deserved the needle. Hell, that may have even been a mercy act for him.
theacademy 09.22.11	i think the death penalty gets too much attention. nobody pays lip service to the procedural stuff: judges and prosecutors having too much power, especially in the south... prosecutors in particular dancing around evidentiary procedures because convictions boost their future careers in criminal defense.... inherently racist state criminal laws that don't get to face the proper constitutional challenges because the legal opposition is simply not there (there's no money in fighting for individual rights)... southern and midwestern jurisdictions being slow/non-responsive to changed circumstances presented by DNA evidence... often uneducated, illiterate, african-american inmates having to use legalese to convince white judges to re-open their cases.... people talk about the death penalty like ending it would solve these sorts of problems... Davis allegedly committed his crime more than 20 years ago... it's not like he was rushed to death... he was systematically denied justice across four different decades.
Athom 09.22.11	Oh I totally agree. It was only the last step in a systematic miscarriage of justice that is all too common in the United States which is seen with lesser consequences every day throughout the legal system. I think so much attention gets put on the death penalty by those who are against it because they can look at it as only a moral issue without having to put into context the greater implications that it has in pointing out the many wrongs in the US justice system and just how much race still comes into play.
Masochist 09.22.11	theacademy - I disagree with the first sentence. The death penalty is something that should really be kept controversial, if for no other reason than to keep it from being used too often. Yesterday, we saw two different instances of the death penalty's usage--one in which is was properly administered, and one in which it probably shouldn't've have been performed at all.* It may sound weird, but without the controversy that surrounds the death penalty, there may be a point where it isn't considered cruel and unusual. *(Preemptively, I'd like to state that I don't agree or disagree with either one based on race; I agree with the "Jasper" death because the guy admitted to doing the crime, the crime fit the punishment and there was proper procedure. I disagree with the Davis death because there were way too many complications to have been certain that that man deserved death). That being said, EVERY OTHER WORD OF YOUR POST FTMFW. I can't help but think of the Tulia boys, some of whom were sentenced to 99 years in prison for allegedly trying to sell cocaine. 99 years FOR COCAINE. To me, though, it's not a race thing, it's a "class" thing. There's a caste system in the U.S. where the ones without money are the ones who suffer the full wrath of the justice system (in the Tulia case, the only reason they were released was because a private investigator had a team of lawyers go and appeal it). In what is probably the first instance of it ever here on Sputnik, I'm going to quote Good Charlotte because it's pretty fitting: "There's no such thing as 25-to-life, as long as you've got the cash to pay for Cochran."
Masochist 09.22.11	"There's a caste system in the U.S. where the ones without money are the ones who suffer the full wrath of the justice system" ...and by the full wrath of the justice system, I mean that the poor are more often targeted because it is believed that they won't have the means to fight it (whether it was lawful or not), and of course, the more convictions you have, the more successful you can say your justice system is, right?
WhiteWallStargazers 09.22.11	I'd say I support the death penalty (at least in situation). I feel that if you do something as evil as murdering someone in cold blood, or rape and kill a young girl, or the like, you sort of give up your rights. Why should you get three meals a day and a place to sleep funded by someone elses money. I'm not saying we should kill everyone, that's not it at all, but in the extreme cases I feel it is warranted.
tkxxx7 09.22.11	I agree with theacademy I hadn't heard about the white supremacist case
Athom 09.22.11	You do realize that the death penalty is drastically more expensive than imprisonment...
theacademy 09.22.11	...and even more so if you think about borderline death penalty cases that prompt guaranteed appeals/stays = prolonged, continued imprisonment in anticipation of an execution. i'm not opposed to the death penalty (i don't think i have the right to be), but i'm not really in support of it either. While I understand the attention it gets, I don't think the debates surrounding the death penalty are productive at all. I just think it would better serve justice if we focused a bit more on the problems leading up to execution.
porch 09.22.11	the problems leading up to execution that you outlined earlier are some of the main reasons why you should be opposed to capital punishment if the evidence suggests that innocent people have been and will continue to be put to death because of racism, human prejudice and flaws in the legal framework used to determine guilt and innocence then that's a pretty good reason to stop using it. and even in cases where guilt is proven, i'm against base level revenge as policy except you andcas, you deserve to die
eternium 09.22.11	Would you rather feed and house a murderer or risk having an innocent be killed? On average it costs $90,000 more per year (in California) to pay for a person on death row than a person sentenced to life without parole.
Athom 09.22.11	With life without parole it basically serves the same purpose (if you think capital punishment is a deterrent you are kidding yourself), is cheaper and is morally a much better option. Plain and simple.
theacademy 09.22.11	the "finality of death" to me, is not a significantly larger interest than the "fleeting nature of life." ... unjust punishment at the hands of a discriminatory legal system is among the worst things imaginable, so why make a big deal differentiating?... and again, I understand why death is different... NO need for people to try to explain that to me, seriously... When I say 'i'm not opposed to the death penalty' it's because I've never been remotely close to a personal situation where I thought it would be justified (thankfully, I might add). However: this is not to say that I can't imagine a situation where I might feel that way. I love and respect masochist and redsky, but truthfully, i couldn't give less of a shit about which of yesterday's executions they thought was justified. Their injustices and my own (drawn from the idea that all of use suffer to some degree when one person breaks the law, etc.) are, in my opinion, so insignificant compared to those suffered by the victims' kin that I can't definitively say that in the same situation I wouldn't change my mind.
eternium 09.22.11	If I killed someone I would rather get the death penalty than spend sixty years in a prison. Life without parole would be a worse punishment to me.
eternium 09.22.11	academy, the tragedy of an innocent man being killed by our justice system is much worse. To him that is the ultimate wrong. It's not simply injustice, it's murder by state.
theacademy 09.22.11	there will be justice in murder.
eternium 09.22.11	Justice by killing whoever is accused even if they are wrong? What the fuck kind of logic is that?
theacademy 09.22.11	drown all sorrow, goodbye tomorrow
Trebor. 09.22.11	The death penalty is a paradox
eternium 09.22.11	That it is.
porch 09.22.11	"Their injustices and my own (drawn from the idea that all of use suffer to some degree when one person breaks the law, etc.) are, in my opinion, so insignificant compared to those suffered by the victims' kin that I can't definitively say that in the same situation I wouldn't change my mind." the victims kin are driven by their own set of circumstances that is unique to them. which is why they shouldn't dictate wider public policy for the rest of us. naturally you'd want to kill the guy that murdered your wife or whatever, doesn't mean that's the right path for society to take
theacademy 09.22.11	that's something I can agree with... obviously a societal 'call for blood' is a terrible goal... but when you responded to my comment you asked (impliedly) why personally, I was not opposed to it. In hypothetical practice. Which is about the least useful opinion someone can give. This is basically the motivation for my original point: we should (collectively) table the discussion about what makes the death penalty different and focus on fixing the injustices permeating system pre-execution.
theacademy 09.22.11	pretty astute synopsis
jefflebowski 09.22.11	the death penalty is a) morally highly dubious at best, and b) a terrible deterrent, judging by the USA's murder rate