"hip hop is meant to refer specifically to a culture, the culture of late 70's - 80's black and hispanic america that was also wrapped up in graffiti art and breakdancing. hip-hop music is essentially an mc rapping over a sample-based beat constructed by a dj. i guess what i'm still not clear on is what limitations the dj or producer faces in constructing a pure hip-hop instrumental."

pretty nicely put tbh but again like i think if you have a trained ear in any genre you can pretty easily tell the differences between genres at their core, base value between takes on them that have evolved to incorporate a vast array of other genres into new sub genres

"i might be mistaken but doesn't brand nubian's one for all have a lot of guitar"

yeah they do. so does slum village. not shitty distorted electric rock guitar tho which is wat im talking about.

ah okay

Album Rating: 4.4 | Sound Off

"words that vaguely work as insults" was the rest of that, but I'm not surprised you stopped reading once you thought of something you could throw at me, that seems to be your MO



so since I proved you wrong with an example and you agreed I guess I win? guess we should just end this here before we argue about even more meaningless bullshit than this. pce

"so since I proved you wrong with an example and you agreed I guess I win? guess we should just end this here before we argue about even more meaningless bullshit than this. pce"

because you contributed 10 seconds where distorted electric guitar works when it is as minimal and unsubstantial to the mix as humanly possible? the only thing i concede to here is that if its applied like that it can work. i still have yet to hear of an example that is anything like how it is applied on this and new de la soul that isn't cringey af so not really. and you know rowan thats really not my MO but I find it really hard to have a pleasant discussion with you when the first thing you even do is roll in here trying to chew on my nuts in your very first comment so that really falls on you buddy. sometimes you can be an alright guy but the vast majority of the time you're a salty goof and i dont respect you so i dont know how you expect me to treat your comments with anything other than dismissal, especially when the best you can offer is running away with your tail between your legs after you feel you've said enough to feel special and important.

Tooooad hey man just as curious as me getting into genres

"i agree, in this case i haven't listened extensively enough for that to be second-nature so i'm trying to construct that understanding in a language-based construct, specific rules/elements/patterns etc."

it really is hard to describe root genres, music is an entirely different language than what is spoken. i often struggle to put it into succinct terms without being well its like this ~plays example~ versus this ~plays different example~

There are a lot of classics I haven't jammed yet so I'm still quite the noob on how hip hop works in depth

its a lot easier to describe sub genres but then u always rely on using the root genre as a base value like describing atmospheric bm is a lot easier than describing bm but its not easy to describe without assuming the person you're describing it to knows what you mean when you say bm

Over the last few months I've been getting easier at identifying how some things work, why they work, etc.

i think its easier if you don't start burning both ends of the candle. if you start at the very beginning of a genre and then work your way chronologically it makes more sense but like if your introduction to hip hop was bouncing back between like tribe and some modern shit like kendrick you'd be pretty confused

or moreso like some aesop rock or cage or shit like that lol

Nas, Tribe, Wu-Tang, GZA, MF Doom, and a couple more obscure artists are the ones I was planning on knocking out first

"my hip-hop listening experience (obviously some of these are not hip hop but w/e) went gorillaz -> kanye west -> doom/madvillain -> death grips -> modern alt hip-hop like shabazz palaces and captain murphy etc. -> making my way back to golden age"

yeah i could see this being a weird sequence lol

"Nas, Tribe, Wu-Tang, GZA, MF Doom, and a couple more obscure artists are the ones I was planning on knocking out first"

one thing i've noticed about a lot of 'heads' is that when they talk about good rappers they are almost strictly talking about their skill as a rapper. i dont like this approach because for me there is so much going on that is equally important on hip hop albums. the beats themselves, the rapping both on a lyrical front AND a technical front, the production, the atmosphere, the impact of the rapper or the group on the genre etc etc.

so in that regard i actually find Nas extremely overrated. Like his influence is unquestionable in that his technicality as a rapper was something that hadn't really been done before, he really changed the game for the actual technical side of rapping. but for all the other aspects? many of which are honestly often even more important than that for me, he is far from the best. his beats and atmosphere and production etc have got nothing on a lot of other groups. same with wu-tang tbh, like gza's liquid swords is infinitely more impressive than any of their joint albums imo, just because sonically it is so advanced. it has an utterly unique atmosphere.

another example is that buckshot might not technically be one of the best rappers ever but when you look at everything together, his style, his lyrics, the beats he works with and the atmosphere he creates by playing off them, and everything that he has done for the genre he is a fucking legend.

one of my favorite things about illmatic is how succinct it is

the beats are terrific but yeah not any better than the beats on a gang starr or pete rock and CL smooth album or a lot of other 90s groups

"like gza's liquid swords is infinitely more impressive than any of their joint albums imo, just because sonically it is so advanced. it has an utterly unique atmosphere."
i can't talk about liquid swords being better sonically or technically bc i haven't heard it yet. however, i found 36 chambers to have an awesome atmosphere. it was more subtle and took a few listens until i realized that the skits + lyrics and minimalist production creates a damn fine setting in my mind

"the beats are terrific but yeah not any better than the beats on a gang starr or pete rock and CL smooth album or a lot of other 90s groups"

hard

not always, but very often i find skits to be very annoying