Was Jesus really such a great guy?
 

Please spare me whatever kind of BS common Christian refute you can think of, anything similar to "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve," or anything that compares God to the wind.

Genesis 11:5-7
[I]"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."[/I]
That sounds like a loving god, doesn't it?
First of all, I find it rather trivial that an all loving God filled with lovy lovingness with flowers and rainbows and **** would drown an entire(supposedly) race of man simply because they didn't believe in him. Every Christian you talk to will say that God loves everybody unconditionally, including gay people, Satanists, so on and so fourth. In fact, he loved everybody so much that the second that they turned against him, what did he do? HE DROWNED THEIR ***. As well as this, I also find it interesting that in these verses, God says that he will wipe out the entire race of man...but didn't the great flood's historical records note that it only covered small parts of Mesopotamia?

And on another note, if Noah and his family were the only survivors of the great flood, then why aren’t everybody of Middle Eastern descent? According to the bible, the great flood wiped out the entire race of man with the exception of Noah, so where did all the other races of man come from? I know what you all are thinking, the tower of Babel, but the story of the tower of Babel speaks absolutely nothing about different races, only different languages.

And isn’t Jesus an all-caring, savior of man that came to earth to save us from our sins? These verses speak otherwise.

Mark 4:33-34
[I]"With many similar parables Jesus spoke to them, as much as they could understand."[/I]

Mark 4:10-12
[I]When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!"[/I]

Jesus was such a caring person, wasn’t he? He came to earth to save people from sin, but I guess only certain people can be saved…so…what exactly was the purpose, again? Jesus spoke in parables specifically so that non-Christians couldn’t tell what the **** he was talking about, and therefore wouldn’t be saved.

Mark 14:3-7
[I]While he was in Bethany, reclining at the table in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, a woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head. Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, “Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.” And they rebuked her harshly. “Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.”[/I]

Well, apparently Jesus doesn’t give a rat’s hairy *** about the poor, as he is obviously more important, using the same tired out speech that parents give to their children when they don’t come home to see them enough. Now that we’ve established that God doesn’t give a **** about his children, and that Jesus is a prejudiced, egotistical prick, this example has been completed. As you can plainly see, my point is not so much that God doesn't exist(even though I strongly believe that there is no one single deity controlling the universe), but more to make you ask yourself this question: "Why would I want to worship a god like this?"

Woo!! 500th Post!!!
 

Well all the books of the bible were written separately, sometimes thousands of years apart, and incorporate different beliefs. The Old Testament God is more wrath and vengeance, but the New Testament one was nicer.

And as for the rest of your post, it was mostly made up of badly cobbled together misinterpretations and bullsh.it.

i guess he wasn't really such a nice guy, but who cares, because he didn't exist.

yup yup
 

i don't :thumb:

it's that whole noah's ark thing. seems frikkin stupid, as I've said in earlier posts, god comes across as a complete frikkin ar$ehole, who even if he does exist i'm not worshipping. :evil:

[QUOTE]god comes across as a complete frikkin ar$ehole, who even if he does exist i'm not worshipping. [/QUOTE]
123

[QUOTE]i guess he wasn't really such a nice guy, but who cares, because he didn't exist.[/QUOTE]
If you're talking about God, that's one thing. But Jesus DID exist. That's irrefutable(spell?), he existed. The question is wether he rose from the grave or not.

[QUOTE]And as for the rest of your post, it was mostly made up of badly cobbled together misinterpretations and bullsh.it.[/QUOTE]
My task wasn't to get an award in journalism. However, I fail to see how any of it was misinterpretted.

[QUOTE=0-0~RockForever]i guess he wasn't really such a nice guy, but who cares, because he didn't exist.[/QUOTE]
I half agree and half disagree with that.

A man named Jesus did exsist and preached the word of "God", allthough he may not neccesarily be "the son of God" or whatever. I'm almost sure of that.

On the other hand, a savior called Jesus did not visit the Earth, cure diseases and get crucified, not to mention be resurected.

Just my opinion.

It's not a matter of being sure of wether Jesus existed or not. HE DID. It's a historical fact, look it up.

Muslims say that their book is the actual words of God, that is Muslims main argument against Christianity because Christianity is not the words of God but the words of Peter, Mark, John, etc.

Wow, that was off topic.

[QUOTE=James Van Halen]

My task wasn't to get an award in journalism. However, I fail to see how any of it was misinterpretted.[/QUOTE]

OK sorry.
I only skim-read your post the first time.
On closer inspection it seems you have a point in most cases. But the thing about Noah's Ark was that it was punishing the wicked people rather than ignoring evil in the world, which would have maybe been evil... i dont know, ask a proper Christian.

But tbh, you have to admit that there are far more things in the bible that show the good done by Jesus.

The problem with the bible IMO is that it's really badly put together and has inconsistancies. I think that's why most Christians only pay attention to the important bits, like mostly the New testament.

[QUOTE]But the thing about Noah's Ark was that it was punishing the wicked people rather than ignoring evil in the world, which would have maybe been evil... i dont know, ask a proper Christian.[/QUOTE]
Most christians will tell you that satanists are wicked, they will also tell you that God loves everybody, including the wicked. And God didn't change from the old testament to the new testament, the only thing that changed was his Law to his people. Now with that in mind, you would think that if God loves satanists, whom have been declared wicked, he would not kill them for their disbelief. Does that sound like unconditional love? Would a father kill his own beloved son for not agreeing with him? And on the case of the old testament, if God is such a smart, perfect being, then the old law should've never been a problem to begin with. It should've been perfect from the start, which it still isn't.

[QUOTE=James Van Halen]As a former Christian, I know every single argument anyone will use, so please spare me whatever kind of BS common Christian refute you can think of, anything similar to "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve," or anything that compares God to the wind.[/quote]
For someone so well-crafted in the verses of Christianity, your argument about God is pretty common too.

[quote]Genesis 11:5-7
[I]"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."[/I]
That sounds like a loving god, doesn't it?
First of all, I find it rather trivial that an all loving God filled with lovy lovingness with flowers and rainbows and **** would drown an entire(supposedly) race of man simply because they didn't believe in him. Every Christian you talk to will say that God loves everybody unconditionally, including gay people, Satanists, so on and so fourth. In fact, he loved everybody so much that the second that they turned against him, what did he do? HE DROWNED THEIR ***. As well as this, I also find it interesting that in these verses, God says that he will wipe out the entire race of man...but didn't the great flood's historical records note that it only covered small parts of Mesopotamia?

And on another note, if Noah and his family were the only survivors of the great flood, then why aren’t everybody of Middle Eastern descent? According to the bible, the great flood wiped out the entire race of man with the exception of Noah, so where did all the other races of man come from? I know what you all are thinking, the tower of Babel, but the story of the tower of Babel speaks absolutely nothing about different races, only different languages.[/quote]
He also freed them from the Egyptians, and provided them sustanence before they turned against him; perhaps he felt betrayed.

Also, many believe the Old Testament just to be parables to get across points of Christianity, not actual history itself.

I don't know if you've read any C.S. Lewis--I'm just getting in to him--but he has some interesting things to say about Christianity. One of them (in the Screwtape Letters) is that God, and Christianity, are pardoxical in ways in that he is three things in one, and that he wants people to serve him but also retain their individuality (free will, you could say). Going on "God is Love," God doesn't want servants for the sake of vanity but that all may be like him in their own free will, and spread love everywhere. Here's how Lewis puts it through the demon Screwtape:

"One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and His service being perfect freedom, is not (as one would gladly believe) mere propaganda, but an apalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself--cretures whose life, on its miniature scale, will be qualitatively like His own, not because He has absorbed them but because their wills freely conform to His. We want cattle who can finally become food; He wants servants who can finally become sons. We want to suck in, He wants to give out. We are empty and would be filled; He is full and flows over. Our war aim is a world in which Our Father Below has drawn all other beings into himself: the Enemy wants a world full of beings united to Him but still distinct."

[quote]And isn’t Jesus an all-caring, savior of man that came to earth to save us from our sins? These verses speak otherwise.

Mark 4:33-34
[I]"With many similar parables Jesus spoke to them, as much as they could understand."[/I]

Mark 4:10-12
[I]When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!"[/I]

Jesus was such a caring person, wasn’t he? He came to earth to save people from sin, but I guess only certain people can be saved…so…what exactly was the purpose, again? Jesus spoke in parables specifically so that non-Christians couldn’t tell what the **** he was talking about, and therefore wouldn’t be saved.[/quote]
It does sound pretty dastardly. But, if Christianity started with Jesus, then that would mean even the twelve Disciples were non-Christian at one time; how did they perceive, understand, convert, and be forgiven of their sins? This only points to me that the parables go beyond party lines, perhaps suggesting those that do not accept God as the one and only God, will never understand what these parables symbolize, so they only remain stories to them, not a truth.

[quote]Mark 14:3-7
[I]While he was in Bethany, reclining at the table in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, a woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head. Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, “Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.” And they rebuked her harshly. “Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.”[/I]

Well, apparently Jesus doesn’t give a rat’s hairy *** about the poor, as he is obviously more important, using the same tired out speech that parents give to their children when they don’t come home to see them enough. Now that we’ve established that God doesn’t give a **** about his children, and that Jesus is a prejudiced, egotistical prick, this example has been completed. As you can plainly see, my point is not so much that God doesn't exist(even though I strongly believe that there is no one single deity controlling the universe), but more to make you ask yourself this question: "Why would I want to worship a god like this?"[/QUOTE]
Or, you could look at him as a guest. In those times, guests were treated very well by the hosts; it was customary. He wasn't just suggesting that this how he always be treated, but only when he is a guest, and all guests the same as him. His life points to his living among and helping the poor, sick, and elderly. What part of the Bible tells of Jesus' life of luxury, or how he supports people not helping each other? He is always giving of food and water, and health (curing blindness, leprosy, and even death). He also said, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's (Mathew 22:21)." The value of services to each other can't be measured in monetary values.

[QUOTE=James Van Halen]As a former Christian, I know every single argument anyone will use[/quote]

WOW! That's quite a claim.

[QUOTE=James Van Halen]
And on another note, if Noah and his family were the only survivors of the great flood, then why aren’t everybody of Middle Eastern descent? [/QUOTE]

Human life started in Africa. Everyone is of African descent.

He was schizophrenic. And the sheep follow the words of a madman.

Jesus is a great guy.

[QUOTE]so please spare me whatever kind of BS common Christian refute you can think of, anything similar to "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve," or anything that compares God to the wind. [/QUOTE]
My point was that i'm not in the mood to hear some kind of quote off of Billy Graham about how you can feel the wind but not see it, or other rediculous "arguements" of the sort. I appologize, I used errored wording.

[QUOTE]Human life started in Africa. Everyone is of African descent.[/QUOTE]
Ok? What does that have to do with anything?

[QUOTE]He also freed them from the Egyptians, and provided them sustanence before they turned against him; perhaps he felt betrayed.[/QUOTE]
Unconditional love does not hold grudges.

[QUOTE]Also, many believe the Old Testament just to be parables to get across points of Christianity, not actual history itself.[/QUOTE]
Maybe so, but any christia scholar will argue. A lot of people use the idea of different dimensions, so they can elaborate on the story of Adam and Eve, say the reason it doesn't exist is because it's in a seperate dimension. They'll think of anything to make their beliefs sound less rediculous.

[QUOTE]I don't know if you've read any C.S. Lewis--I'm just getting in to him--[/QUOTE]
I've been meaning to read the chronicles of Narnia.

[QUOTE]"One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and His service being perfect freedom, is not (as one would gladly believe) mere propaganda, but an apalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself--cretures whose life, on its miniature scale, will be qualitatively like His own, not because He has absorbed them but because their wills freely conform to His. We want cattle who can finally become food; He wants servants who can finally become sons. We want to suck in, He wants to give out. We are empty and would be filled; He is full and flows over. Our war aim is a world in which Our Father Below has drawn all other beings into himself: the Enemy wants a world full of beings united to Him but still distinct."[/QUOTE]
As interesting as this is, the fact that I don't believe in God renders it pretty useless.
And if he does exist, all that paragraph does is increase my distaste for him.

[QUOTE]It does sound pretty dastardly. But, if Christianity started with Jesus, then that would mean even the twelve Disciples were non-Christian at one time; how did they perceive, understand, convert, and be forgiven of their sins?[/QUOTE]
Because the disciples were chosen.

[QUOTE]This only points to me that the parables go beyond party lines, perhaps suggesting those that do not accept God as the one and only God, will never understand what these parables symbolize, so they only remain stories to them, not a truth.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, but this was not as Jesus described it, and if so, it's a rather generalizing statement from somebody who preaches against stereotypes and judging.

[QUOTE]Or, you could look at him as a guest. In those times, guests were treated very well by the hosts; it was customary. He wasn't just suggesting that this how he always be treated, but only when he is a guest, and all guests the same as him. His life points to his living among and helping the poor, sick, and elderly. What part of the Bible tells of Jesus' life of luxury, or how he supports people not helping each other?[/QUOTE]
The part that you just read. Regardless of the customs of people's hospitalities in those days, the fact of the matter is that these people had a legitiment compliant, and instead of agreeing that it should've been given to the poor, instead he lectures them for not honoring the fact that he was just babied by a whore.

[QUOTE]He also said, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's (Mathew 22:21)." .[/QUOTE]
Yes, the whole law of the land thing. I also find that interesting considering christians still fight against abortion and other such thingseven though it is, in fact, the LAW OF THE LAND. And aside from that, what did this have to do with anything?

/to James Van Halen

I don't think he was talking about Narnia.

[QUOTE=James Van Halen]As a former Christian, I know every single argument anyone will use, so please spare me whatever kind of BS common Christian refute you can think of[/QUOTE]
this very line makes me fail to take your reasoning seriously. As for the rest of your post, it all looks like it doesnt follow whatsoever. I recommend you look into studying God's nature rather than just passing off your opinions as facts.

I realize that, he asked if I was familiar with any C.S. Lewis, so I was simply saying that I've been planning on reading the Chronicles Of Narnia. I've never heard of this Demon Screwtape that he's talking about...

[QUOTE=Hammett]Human life started in Africa. Everyone is of African descent.[/QUOTE]
Umm NO thats just a theory

i think i remember hearing about people finding noahs ark or that may just be a dream


But the point im getting to is...(this doesnt have to do anything if he was kind or not but if he is fake or real)
If Jesus is the "All powerful" god who can do anything, can he make a worlds most heaviest rock that no one can push? if he cant then he is not god. If he can then that means he cant push it which means he still is not a god.
Or am i mistaken something because i was never a christian or catholic person.

[QUOTE=azndragon166]
But the point im getting to is...(this doesnt have to do anything if he was kind or not but if he is fake or real)
If Jesus is the "All powerful" god who can do anything, can he make a worlds most heaviest rock that no one can push? if he cant then he is not god. If he can then that means he cant push it which means he still is not a god.
Or am i mistaken something because i was never a christian or catholic person.[/QUOTE]
if i got a dollar for every time this has been refuted....

[QUOTE=azndragon166]Umm NO thats just a theory

i think i remember hearing about people finding noahs ark or that may just be a dream


But the point im getting to is...(this doesnt have to do anything if he was kind or not but if he is fake or real)
If Jesus is the "All powerful" god who can do anything, can he make a worlds most heaviest rock that no one can push? if he cant then he is not god. If he can then that means he cant push it which means he still is not a god.
Or am i mistaken something because i was never a christian or catholic person.[/QUOTE]

As far as physicality goes, my dear friend, Jesus Christ was just a man.

You make some very interesting points, but it's not pieced together too great.

religion **** is way to confusing imo

i dont know what i believe right now

[QUOTE=azndragon166]Umm NO thats just a theory

i think i remember hearing about people finding noahs ark or that may just be a dream


But the point im getting to is...(this doesnt have to do anything if he was kind or not but if he is fake or real)
If Jesus is the "All powerful" god who can do anything, can he make a worlds most heaviest rock that no one can push? if he cant then he is not god. If he can then that means he cant push it which means he still is not a god.
Or am i mistaken something because i was never a christian or catholic person.[/QUOTE]
I think you're getting Jesus and God mixed up.

Dear lord is this thread retarded.

Ok, news flash: it's pointless to debate someone if you're not prepared to listen to their argument! So...saying that you've heard all of the Christian responses, and that it's all BS...suggests to me "then why start the ****ing thread?" I would say that this thread qualifies as Premium grade SPAM. It is worthless. You're just trolling and criticizing other people's belief systems without actually trying to engage them philosophically.

I can tell that you are pretty bitter, and the fact that you were once a believer probably contributes heavily to that, but you need to find some sort of balance. All of this hate and bitterness is unnecessary. If you want to challenge and engage Christians about their beliefs, then that's fine...but try to do so from an equal level of respect, don't come out guns ablazing. That would be just as bad as a Christian making a thread saying "Are homosexuals gonna burn? Why, yes of course they are!"

OK, a lot of the bible (particularly the old testament) is NOT supposed to be taken literally. "Noah's Ark" is a story with meaning, and that's it. Noah was a pure man in a world full of hate and evil. The way I interpreate it is this: Noah and his family represent the believers. That is, those who believe in God and are faithful to Him. I THINK the animals represent those who don't know any better about God. ie., those whom the word of God has not yet reached. Innocents I suppose. The unenlightened souls. The Ark represents their faith.
The "flood" is symbolic, in my interpretation, of judgement day. Those whom consciously decided to turn away from God and lives bad lives were killed. This represents being sent to Hell. Those who had faith and joined the Ark crew were saved because they had faith, ie, they went to Heaven for staying true to God.
The Bible tells us that God does not send people to Hell simply for sinning. If one sins, but is sorry and believes in God as the almighty, that person will be saved. If one sins, doesn't care, and rejects God, that person will not be saved. Thats why I think this story represents judgement day.

The bible is full of stories that are just that, [I]stories.[/I] But they are stories with meaning. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure that out. It is when people start taking said stories literally that arguments and fights break out.

Now, I don't consider myself Christian, but I'm by no means an atheist. I don't know what to believe, I'm still struggling with the whole aspect. However, I cans till appreciate the Bible as a text that inspires people to live good lives. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

to answer the thread's question...

think about how many people still talk about Him, good and bad. His book is the best selling book of all time, and it's found everywhere. the more people hate Him, the more He is spread throughout.

and about the guy with Noah's ark being figurative and not literal they found pieces of the ark in a mountain in turkey some 10 years ago. google it for clarity.

[QUOTE=syous]to answer the thread's question...

think about how many people still talk about Him, good and bad. His book is the best selling book of all time, and it's found everywhere. the more people hate Him, the more He is spread throughout.

and about the guy with Noah's ark being figurative and not literal they found pieces of the ark in a mountain in turkey some 10 years ago. google it for clarity.[/QUOTE]
Sure, "The Ark." Noah's Ark, like a lot of the Bible IS figurative. I agree there probably was a big flood. But it was just that, a flood. A random and unfortunate act of nature that probably took lots of lives. That doesn't mean it was God killing everyone and asking 1 man to build a really big boat and take lots of animals on it with him. There are lots of them in the Bible, stories of destruction that can be logically summed up as natural disasters that people have given religious symbology to find a meaning out of it. It's not uncommon, and it makes sense to help people cope with their greiving of the loss of loved ones. It is likely that's how those stories came to be.

Along the lines of what Simon said: The bulk of the Old Testament was written by rabbi's during the Babylonian Captivity trying to convey a message, not a historical fact to their followers. During the captivity, the temple was destroyed and many of the teachings and hstories recorded by the Jewish people were destroyed. The rabbis tried to give a message in a way the people could understand while providing some sort of explanation(often incomplete) of what happened prior to the captivity. They hoped that the Jewish people would be able to keep their faith going based on these stories during and after the captivity.

This same logic is especially true of the story of creation, which is often interpreted word for word, therefore not understanding the meaning behind it. This story was written by the rabbi's so that the people back then could understand in a tangible way the concept of creation without getting bogged up in the theory behind it.