Willie
01.18.10 | fattytoeben asked for industrial recs and I was already thinking about doing some sort of industrial feature, so this is just a quick list based on those two things occurring at roughly the same time. |
Relinquished
01.18.10 | glad you did this. I wanted to get into industrial but didn't have time to ask. awesome list bro. |
bloc
01.18.10 | can't say i'm the biggest industrial fan, since i prefer ebm and futurepop but this is a very good list. nice work. |
theacademy
01.18.10 | no dope = fail; no manson = fail (especially as a gateway band); no MSI = biggest fail
NYC bias aside, dope + msi are pretty big deals for 90's industrial |
theacademy
01.18.10 | other than that though, list is really good...lol
dont want to go neg here, like this list. |
theacademy
01.18.10 | *laaaate 90's industrial |
Willie
01.18.10 | I can't get into the futurepop stuff all that much, but I love EBM. You might try the Evils Toy and Project Pitchfork albums I listed.
No Manson because the band is generally thought of negatively by most people so it's better to leave it off. Plus they only have the one album that might even be worth mentioning. Dope isn't mentioned because it's basically nu metal. I might as well have listed Static-X
|
Relinquished
01.18.10 | You could've listed Wisconsin Death Trip. |
theacademy
01.18.10 | I'm not talking about whatever garbage dope has put out since group therapy. "Felons and Revolutionaries" is straight up industrial metal, man... |
bloc
01.18.10 | MM is barely industrial, it's no problem you didn't add them, imo. |
theacademy
01.18.10 | interesting fact: theacademy was once in a dope music video |
Willie
01.18.10 | I thought about listing their second album, actually, but I didn't want to make the list too overwhelming with a ton of bands.
Bands I thought about listing (Consider this the honorable mention area): Static-X, 16Volt, Wumpscut, Spineshank, The Hunger, God Lives Underwater, Rob Zombie, Pitchshifter, Ohgr, Machines of Loving Grace, IWR, Iron Lung Corp., Informatik, Flesh Field, Fear Factory, Drown, Dink, Die Krupps, Rammstein, Crossbreed, Combichrist, Argyle Park....
I just didn't want to overwhelm with too many albums... plus that would take a damn long time to make. |
Willie
01.18.10 | See, that's why I didn't include any Manson stuff. It wasn't worth the time/arguments.
I haven't heard "Felons and Revolutionaries". |
theacademy
01.18.10 | i forgot about rammstein and RZ
@chambered
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D2DO9ibMP0U/S1SHX4rZcMI/AAAAAAAAAs8/AxoXkDPHU4A/s1600-h/2.jpg |
theacademy
01.18.10 | hahahaha |
Crysis
01.18.10 | Great list Willie, I've never managed to get into Industrial but I will give several of these a listen. |
bloc
01.18.10 | it's probably the most unpopular genre on the site.
remember the time 10 made it on the popular albums chart a while ago? thing stayed there for some time, it was a moment of history. |
jrowa001
01.18.10 | may check out a few of these. industrial is very hit or miss with me.
surprised not to see Foetus in here. J.G. Thirlwell was a forefather in industrial/post-punk |
Meatplow
01.18.10 | The lack of first wave is a big disappointment.
Besides that what i've heard off here is pretty good, though I do strongly disagree with your choice of Ministry album as you anticipated ;]
If you were to write an industrial article i'd like to help you out with the earlier years if you like, it's more my forte then the 90's and beyond. |
Willie
01.18.10 | Yeah, industrial isn't very popular here but it's the genre's fault too because there is a ton of really bad shit. When 10 made it onto the popular albums list it was definitely a moment in sputnik history :)
To jrowa & Meatplow: The industrial that came before the nineties isn't really something I know anything about. I've heard a few of the bands that released albums during that time that are still around now (Skinny Puppy comes to mind), but mostly it's too simple/raw/undeveloped (IMO) for me. Meatplow, I'm going to end up doing an industrial article and was actually going to ask you about doing the early stuff. |
Meatplow
01.18.10 | I'd be happy to.
Let me know through last.fm or whatever when you have some solid ideas down. |
Metalstyles
01.18.10 | very good list man. I strongly dislike 8 though, you should swap that with a better industrialized album (maybe that Dope album theacademy suggested or 16volt or Crossbreed or Fear Factory). Also, Celldweller deserves a spot here imo as it's: 1) a great gateway band 2) rather accessible 3) kinda has a unique style that borders between industrial and alt.rock
Other than that, a great list and some stuff I will for sure check out |
Blindsided
01.18.10 | Nice now I have more to add to the list you gave me. |
MrHotMoms
01.18.10 | dam i thought this was "Willie's Guide to Interracial" |
Grimlin
01.18.10 | Cool list. A lot I'll have to check out. I'm happy 9 is on here. It is indeed a classic. Most of Klayton's (Scott Albert, whatever his name is now) output has been good, but Brainchild, the first Circle of Dust, and Argyle Park are definitely his highlights. I could honestly do without Celldweller. |
RobotFrank
01.18.10 | Cool list, very informative stuff - I'll def be coming back to this in the future. Good to see some industrial related conversing around here. I'm looking forward to that feature. |
Willie
01.18.10 | @Metalstyles: You didn't like that Skrew album? What could you have possibly found wrong with it? I'm going to keep 8 on there because Fear Factory are hardly industrial metal and Crossbreed has the same negative association as Marilyn Manson (i.e most people remember them being bad). I heard Celldweller and was unimpressed.
The feature is still a few months off. It's just in planning stages right now. This list was kind of just testing the waters.
|
theacademy
01.18.10 | dude, "Holy Wood" has a 3.9 and "Antichrist" has a 3.8 here, and "Animals" has a 3.6... i just don't think its wise to submit to the whims of the largely-uninformed sputnik youth, who only recognize the post-"Golden Age" Manson... he/they is/are probably the second best-selling Industrial outfit of all time... i know you have a disclaimer that its not an anthology or history but his earlier works are certainly worth a rec... |
Metalstyles
01.18.10 | @ Willie
ok I can understand those points, but what about 16volt, Spineshank or Drown? Those would be better than Skrew imo. And as to your question (that does sound awful ironic, but whatever haha) why i dislike Skrew, teh answer is simple really - they are boring. Electronics are run-of-the-mill, guitars sound like shit (sorry, but they do) and i wasn't really impressed by the vocals either (that doesn't count much though, as industrial metal really isn't about the vox).
Also, Celldweller is cool :P
Will be looking towards the final product |
Willie
01.19.10 | @theacademy: See, that was the other point of the list. It's an easy way to note any omissions. In a feature MM would definitely be mentioned, but since this was just a quick list based almost entirely on my personal opinion (and I'm not a fan of Manson) he was omitted - it had nothing to do with giving in.
@Metalstyles: I personally feel that the Skrew album is more important than those releases even if most of them are better known. I don't hear any of the things you mention about Skrew, but to each their own... at least you liked Drown! |
theacademy
01.19.10 | arite i gotcha man |
PayneTiger777
01.19.10 | Nice list. I just bought 3 not too long ago. Great album. |
Deviant.
01.19.10 | List is pretty much spot on. Plus it's impossible to make a list without people commenting that such and such should be on it, etc. Missing a few on this list though, bookmarked |
Blindsided
01.19.10 | Lol I bookmarked this one too. I'll be coming back to it often. |
Chewie
01.19.10 | wow this is great! |
bloc
01.19.10 | definitely check this out Chewpacabra since i know you got your eyes on industrial |
Willie
01.19.10 | Yeah, 3 is great. That was also the third album I ever reviewed on the site (I reviewed the entire Stabbing Westward discography in order).
I'm glad this list is useful for some people. There should probably be an expanded feature within the coming months. |
Chewie
01.19.10 | lol Chewpacabra,
well yesterday I pre-ordered Too Dark Park, so in a month or two I shall see the full extremities of what this genre has to offer. |
Willie
01.19.10 | Just jumping into the deep end ;) Make sure to give it a few listens because it's going to take them. If you do like it then I definitely recommend that Acylum album as a good number 2. |
Chewie
01.19.10 | I really think that industrial and me get along very well despite my lack of knowledge of it, I just like that style. I will definitely give it many listens, and drink it in. |
Willie
01.19.10 | Well, industrial isn't the easiest genre to learn about and get into. There's hardly any (good) websites devoted to it and because of the fact that anyone with a computer can crank something out and call it "industrial" there's also a lot of shit floating around.
If you need any help/direction contact me here or on last.fm (last.fm is easier because it's easier to point you in the right directions). |
Meatplow
01.19.10 | Wikipedia is always a start. I wouldn't consider it all that difficult to learn at all, it goes a little something like this.
first wave
post-industrial (power electronics, industrial metal, neofolk, EBM etc.)
Getting the essence of the first wave bands down is tricky, industrial music grew out of performance art collectives that sprang up after the punk scene started to burn out by people influenced had all kinds of deviant political and philosophical ideas. A lot of the early stuff developed alongside and overlaps with post-punk, ambient, noise and electronic music.
It's an almost completely different world to some of the modern industrial metal or industrial rock most people on this website will be familiar with, but nonetheless it's difficult to have a core understanding of the genre unless you have at least a vague familiarity with what these artists are about. |
Willie
01.19.10 | Wikipedia is kind of helpful, but it's only one site. I guess I don't have a core understanding of industrial's beginnings, but I know about the ninties up til now. Anyway, that's why you're going to do it ;)
|
Meatplow
01.19.10 | Indeed, one should always take wikipedia with a grain of salt.
Still, I insist it's a valuable starting point for just about any topic, even if only to access the collection of organised sources referenced down the bottom which are usually far more useful and revealing then the article itself.
Most of the wiki stuff for industrial music is lifted almost directly out of the Industrial Culture Handbook (which is pretty much the definitive guide on those years), along with artist biographies and other websites referencing history.
From what i've witnessed it's pretty solid. |
theacademy
01.19.10 | i completely forgot about Orgy. loved the shit out of them back in the day. |
Willie
01.19.10 | That's basically how I use Wiki. Can I just be honest and say that I don't really care about Industrial's humble beginnings because I've never really heard anything I like from them.
Orgy had one good song and it wasn't even their's. ;) |
theacademy
01.19.10 | having listened to this song like abillion times, and watching the video for the first time, i must say its a bit anticlimactic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NczLNctogZk |
Willie
01.19.10 | What is it? I'm at work and Youtube is blocked. |
theacademy
01.19.10 | Fiction (Dreams in Digital)
its like one of the first songs I ever, um, "borrowed" over the internet |
Meatplow
01.19.10 | "That's basically how I use Wiki. Can I just be honest and say that I don't really care about Industrial's humble beginnings because I've never really heard anything I like from them. "
I believe you have already said this before, it's okay ;] |
Willie
01.19.10 | Hey, I've checked out everything you've suggested from that era and that has to count for something ;) |
Meatplow
01.19.10 | It's not everyone's cup of tea that's for sure, i'm admittedly a little more masochistic in a musical sense than most. |
Willie
01.19.10 | Yeah you are. You listen to those bands like Merzbow and stuff too; right? |
Piglet
01.19.10 | the rasputin of industrial |
Willie
01.19.10 | Ha ha, I do what I can. |
Dreamsoffew
01.19.10 | I really need to get working on that Unter Null review that I was thinking of doing a while back haha. Stabbing Westward a great band too, underrated too. People seemed to ignore since they flirted with radio play a few times. |
Willie
01.19.10 | Yeah you do. I'll have a review of her upcoming album when it comes out at the end of next month. Yeah, Stabbing Westward changed their sound too many times and lost a lot of fans, I think. |
Dreamsoffew
01.19.10 | I can barely remember the names of any of their songs, but one of them (How can I save you, I can't even save myself song) was supernova here on all the alt radio stations back in the day. |
Willie
01.19.10 | It was in San Diego too. That whole album was really good and well accepted, but they changed their whole sound anyway for the next album... dumb move. |
Dreamsoffew
01.19.10 | Just skimming through the comments here, this list definitely did not need Manson. I wouldn't even really call him Industrial. |
Willie
01.19.10 | He had his moments on his second album, but mostly you're correct. He would never be included on my list. He'll probably be included in some form on any feature simply to keep the attention of those unfamiliar with the genre. |
Dreamsoffew
01.19.10 | Antichrist was his 2nd album wasn't it? After Portrait Of An American Family. Or ar you referring to Mechanical Animals? |
Willie
01.19.10 | Yeah, I'm referring to Antichrist Superstar but I couldn't remember what the hell it was called. Although, Mechanical Animals is his only decent release but it's not industrial. |
Dreamsoffew
01.19.10 | I'm no expert on the genre (I prefer the lighter stuff), but i'd still be pretty hesitatnt to call Antichrist industrial. I actually enjoy Manson, even to this day, i've just never found him to be industrial in the slightest. |
Willie
01.19.10 | Overall I see your point, but if bands such as Gravity Kills and Static-X can be considered industrial then Antichrist fits right in. |
Dreamsoffew
01.19.10 | Can't say i've heard of Gravity Kills, but I see what you mean. And then if you include Static you'd have to include Rammstein and so on and so on. List is fine how it is :) |
Willie
01.19.10 | ha ha, thanks. Basically you've got to throw a bone to the people that only know the industrial they've managed to hear on the radio. Even if that means including crap like Rammstein and Marilyn Manson ;) |
Dreamsoffew
01.19.10 | Oi! |
Willie
01.19.10 | Ha ha. Just try a few of these. Try Lo-Fi Scorpio (it's free, the link is up there with the album) and Chemlab. |
Dreamsoffew
01.19.10 | Righty-o, will do! |
ThePalaceOfWisdom
01.19.10 | No Coil? |
Meatplow
01.19.10 | "Yeah you are. You listen to those bands like Merzbow and stuff too; right? "
I've actually never listened to Merzbow, but I do I listen to a lot of noise. |
theacademy
01.19.10 | "Just skimming through the comments here, this list definitely did not need Manson. I wouldn't even really call him Industrial."
"He had his moments on his second album, but mostly you're correct. He would never be included on my list. He'll probably be included in some form on any feature simply to keep the attention of those unfamiliar with the genre."
Regardless of how your receive their "theatrics" or how history remembers them, you can't convincingly argue that Antichrist Superstar + Holy Wood do not fit the archetype of industrial metal perfectly. I'm not saying that MM deserves a spot on your list above some other band, just that it's a pretty glaring omission. Antichrist Superstar sold 7.5 million copies worldwide! It was produced by Reznor, and made Manson into a cultural phenomenon. Manson's career trajectory has A LOT more in common with NIN than with Static-X (pretty much a joke).
Saying they don't belong on your "Guide to..." genre is like saying that Limp Bizkit doesn't belong on a "Guide to Nu Metal" or that DMX or Ja Rule doesnt belong on a "Guide to Gangsta Rap"
Also, I still maintain that MSI warrants a mention, as they incorporate industrial elements pretty consistently altho they may not fit in with the bands above... |
Meatplow
01.19.10 | I'd put Manson more in the general vein of "Industrial Rock", which is perhaps splitting hairs but seemingly more appropriate given that really, Manson is the bastard child of superficial pop culture. Trey is not pretending to offer a comprehensive overview here in any case, and is free to exclude albums he doesn't feel worthy esp. for a tentative category as "gateway bands".
Mindless Self Indulgence are possibly the worst band i've ever heard. |
theacademy
01.19.10 | not to be nit-picky, but the title of the list is "Willie's Guide To Industrial" ... both bands fit that title, as it's written.
and again, I love the list. I know its not a "comprehensive overview" I was just responding to the exchange between the two quoted users.
Original response to my Manson suggestion was that they are disfavored on the site (a truth), not that they don't belong on the list. Then in a late night-possibly morning somewhere else discussion with that cool dude dreamsoffew, his position changed, or perhaps he just rephrased it in a way that rubbed me the wrong way...
no flames intended. also msi rulz. |
Meatplow
01.19.10 | I do think Antichrist Superstar is up there with The Downward Spiral. |
theacademy
01.19.10 | i dont know about THAT but i think its a solid album lol |
Meatplow
01.19.10 | the downward spiral is but a solid album and nothing more to me |
Mordecai.
01.19.10 | does Godflesh fit in here? |
Meatplow
01.19.10 | Most definitely. I feel it might be worth noting their huge influence over post metal as well which puts them in something of a unique position, bridging that sludgy, dense kind of metal with industrial.
Some claim they are redundant, I really like what i've heard though (Streetcleaner, Pure, Messiah). |
Mordecai.
01.19.10 | Yeah Street Cleaner is awesome. Have you heard Greymachine Meatplow? |
Meatplow
01.20.10 | I can't say I have. I'll check them out. |
Willie
01.20.10 | @theacademy: Rubbed you the wrong way? Ha ha. You really feel strongly about this, don't you? The conversation you're referring to was about 4am, and I wouldn't say I changed my position at all. My first comment on him was that he's viewed negatively so I left him off the list, plus he only has the one album worth even mentioning. Then later I mentioned that this list was entirely my opinion (yes the title would allow it to go either way), and that I wasn't a huge fan of his anyway (if I was I'd have probably listed the album regardless of popular opinion). Later, during the 4am conversation, I said he'd never be included on my list - a statement that's reinforced by him not being on my list ;) I also said, again, that he would be on a feature though. My final statement on the matter was: "Overall I see your point, but if bands such as Gravity Kills and Static-X can be considered industrial then Antichrist fits right in." Ha ha, and they don't belong on my list because it is purely my opinion here whereas a feature would be more even-handed... I've never heard MSI so I can't get into that one. |
theacademy
01.20.10 | fair enough. again i think manson is just ok... his last 2 albums have been pretty dreadful, but he's definitely industrial.
also u should listen to early dope when u get the chance... that's also straight up industrial... and that's also another band that has put out some TERRIBLE stuff... |
JesusV4
06.01.10 | Been REALLY digging My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult this past week. Beats that carry synthlines of different tempos and the catchiest samples I've heard. Got to see them Thursday and SF; best show I;'ve seen in a while. |
Willie
06.01.10 | I've never been a fan of Thrill Kill Kult, but my cousin loves them. |
Counterfeit
06.01.10 | Already had TDS. But I did get The Shizit cause I'm cheap and it was free. Really liked it. |
Willie
06.01.10 | If you liked the Shizit album then you should get the Rabbit Junk album "ReFrame". It's the same guy. |
Counterfeit
06.01.10 | Ight. I'll get round to it when I can. |
Parallels
02.25.12 | Totally expected to see 32 on here, and for a good reason too. It rules.
22 is one of the best albums ever |
KILL
02.25.12 | fade you are so mean |
Willie
02.25.12 | @Riff & Baseline: read the description. It isn't definitive, just a place to start. Also, the 80s stuff is much harder to get into for new listeners. The first part of this list (the 80s part) was done by Meatplow at about the same time. Also, industrial went well beyond the 80s so you should know what you're talking about before posting. PS - you're banned forever, motherfuckers :) |
Willie
02.26.12 | We're cool now ;) |
iambandersnatch
02.26.12 | i got my gf into 4 a while back. so glad i did, it's nice to have a break every so often from the constant barrage of j-rock that she plays. |
Homeslice
08.11.12 | Nice list |
idkpokeit
11.12.12 | No Godflesh?
|
Flugmorph
01.29.16 | why did you not include coil into this list? |
Azazzel
01.05.24 | sick list, I gotta fill in some gaps like Circle of Dust |
tinathefatlard
01.05.24 | Great list |